Duke vs Dartmouth vs Grinnell?

College Search & Lists
1

Hi everyone! Over the last two weeks, I’ve had the privilege of getting admitted into these amazing institutions… Now, as May 1st quickly approaches, I’m so incredibly lost with which to choose. I’ve looked through almost all the Duke/Dartmouth comparisons during the wee hours of the morning when I should’ve been studying, but I’m still just as undecided. :confused:

In terms of cost, as I belong to a lower income bracket than most, I can attend Duke for around 12k with 3.5k of loans, Dartmouth for 11k with no loans, and Grinnell for only around 5k (Presidential Scholarship recipient). Though financially Grinnell would be the best option, I’m worried about the relative lack of a strong career center as that of Duke and Dartmouth.

If you would’ve asked me 5 months ago, I would have said Dartmouth right off the bat. An East Coast Ivy League school has always been something of my dreams. However, I’ve been recently put off by people saying the social scene was too fratty, too insular, too myopic. I’m not the party type, and as an LGBT student, I’m worried about finding the right group of friends among such a small group of people. Also, though I was initially attracted to the quaint town of Hanover, a recent alumna told me it could be acutely isolating at times.

Since I’ve applied, I’ve fell in love with Duke - the culture, the architecture - mostly everything is enticing. However, I feel like I’m going against what my mind has been set on since elementary school. In addition, I’ve heard the students there can be rather competitive at times. Having endured being a part of a hyper competitive friend group during high school, this makes me anxious. Also, I’ve heard Durham described rather interestingly in the past threads I’ve read. Though most have been positive, some other notable descriptions have been: “the armpit of North Carolina,” & “Hellham.”

In terms of Grinnell, I feel so honored to know their admissions staff thought I had enough potential to warrant a full scholarship. As my family’s source of income can very well fluctuate in the next four years, a full ride can give me the added sense of security.

As of right now, I’m not too sure on what I’m going to major in… Economics, Public Policy and Compsci are my shortlist.

Any help would be appreciated. I’m so torn, especially knowing that my choice can literally change the path of my entire life… AHHHH Thanks CC!

2

Well first - no, it’s unlikely that your choice will “literally change the path of your entire life.” I think thinking about it that way introduces a whole lot of unnecessary anxiety and pathos to the decision. You are choosing between three very excellent, well-regarded colleges. Students get jobs, go to grad school and have successful lives from all three. As long as you can be happy in the environment there, you can’t go wrong with your choice. You could roll a dice and pick based on that and be absolutely fine. So don’t assign this choice an inflated sense of importance - it’s not that it’s not important, but it also won’t set in stone the course of the rest of your life either.

With that said:

There are downsides to everything - you’re not going to find a single choice that doesn’t have a downside. The goal is to choose a place where you love the upsides and the downsides don’t scare you off. I’m sure that Hanover can sometimes be isolating - small towns tend to do that - but larger cities can be overwhelming and intense. And your other two choices aren’t exactly in thriving metropolises anyway. (Durham’s the closest thing to that, but as you mentioned, there are downsides to that too.)

You are 17 years old, almost an adult. You don’t have to go along with what you have wanted since elementary school. Those were ‘dreams’ fueled by a child’s perspective on things. Duke is an excellent school; no, it’s not in the Northeast and it doesn’t belong to the Ivy League athletic conference, but it’s still a top-notch school that will give you an excellent education. It sounds like the only thing that’s holding you back is your childhood dream of going to a specific set of schools.

Also, you are comparing three elite schools. I would be surprised if the atmosphere doesn’t sometimes get competitive at all three of them.

Anyway, just from reading this post it sounds like you really want to go to Duke. The only things you have said about Dartmouth are negative things, and the only positive that you can put it for it is its prestige, which is true of Duke and Grinnell as well. On the flip side, your preference for Duke is pretty clear from the way you write about it.

Grinnell is a great bargain at only $5K a year, but you don’t seem excited about it, and Duke isn’t very much more. As long as your family can afford it, I would go with Duke.

3

Congrats on three great options. I agree with the above post, Duke seems like the best fit for you. Many people would find that Duke has more prestige than Dartmouth. But Dartmouth could be a great option as well. Is the 3.5k in loans and extra 1k in tuition at Duke per year or over four years? If per year, then Dartmouth will save you 18k, which could be an important consideration given your low income bracket.

4

I’d be inclined to go with Grinnell if that is the only drawback that concerns you.
You’re likely to get more personal attention there, overall, than you would at Duke or Dartmouth
If you’re turned off by the prospects of a “fratty” social scene, then consider the numbers:
46% of undergraduate men are in fraternities at Dartmouth, 30% at Duke, and 0% at Grinnell.
So, although you’re likely to find your tribe at any of them, Grinnell may be best for the kind of atmosphere you seem to want.

Besides, Grinnell is significantly cheaper.
Although … if you continue to be more excited by Duke, you might try to persuade them to improve their offer.

5

Even though Grinnell gave you the best financial offer, the offer at Duke is pretty darned good too. It sounds based on what you are looking for that Duke is the best fit. There will be more diversity there and the way you can combine majors and minors is also a plus.
Congrats!

6

Only you can figure out the best community and environment for you. That means, being honest with yourself about what kind of environment you thrive in, personally and academically. All three are phenomenal schools with great reputations, there is no wrong choice.

Duke is a great all-around university – big sports, big everything. There are actually more grad students than undergrads. As a big school, there will be plenty of students who share similar interests and goals with you, and you can find them by joining organizations focused on your interests. Consider reading back issues of the student newspaper online, look to see if you can follow the LBGTQ group on social media to get a feel for the community and the issues facing campus. (You do not seem excited about Dartmouth, so I won’t address that).

Grinnell is one of the best LACs around and an entirely different experience from Duke – classes are capped at 25 students, there are no gen ed requirements, the amazing science and athletic facilities are only there for you – the undergrad – there is summer funding for internships, student research etc. Grinnell is an extremely tolerant and inclusive community, we’ve been to campus 4-5 times for 2 kids’ college search, and were impressed that there is no dominant type of student, I’ve said there is everything from blue hair to Vineyard Vines. The model of self-gov fosters a collaborative community. It is an amazing place with very impressive faculty. If you have concerns about career services, email admissions about getting connected to current students or career services advisor to get a better understanding of what it might look like for you.

As a parent, my view would be – you’ve worked hard enough for the gold ring, doing what others expect you to do. Now, it is time to be honest with yourself about what environment is best for you for the next stage. Congratulations, and good luck in your decision.

7

It sounds like you like Duke the most. Trust your gut.

It’s also worth noting that recent Duke graduates earn $31,000 more on average.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?198419-Duke-University
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?153384-Grinnell-College

Durham is a perfectly nice city and often ranks as one of the best medium sized cities in the US for food and career opportunities. The people who criticize it have likely never been there and are relying on outdated stereotypes. The research triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) is one of the most educated regions in the country.

8

Congratulations on three great options. Not to confuse you any more, but Duke is kind of heavy on the frats too. When I toured last spring with my daughter, 10 out of the 12 tour guides said that they belonged to a fraternity or sorority. However, they do have these alternative houses. But even if Durham is not exactly a Chicago or Boston or New York, it does feel less isolated than Hanover.

9

Since you mention LGBT, you should be aware of the horrific anti-LGBT law that North Carolina just passed. There’s been a lot of backlash against it, so it may get repealed (more likely only partially repealed, I’d guess), but it shows the environment/government there. Also, I’m surprised people aren’t highlighting the cost differences more – $6-7K per year, $24-28K overall. That’s a significant amount, about the limit that people suggest having for debt overall. You don’t say how you’re going to cover that, and/or whether it’d have to be on top of other loans.

Sorry to make your decision more complicated, but these are important considerations.

10

^^^I was just going to chime in with the same information. If you are thinking about Duke, please take this into consideration. My vote is for Grinnell. No frats. Small classes. Liberal environment. Least expensive of your options.

11

Just to be sort of contrarian, I don’t think you can hold Duke responsible for the North Carolina anti-LGBT legislation, though the president of nearby UNC Chapel Hill had a bad track record in this regard. Last year Duke’s mandatory read for incoming freshmen was “Fun Home,” which is a memoir by a lesbian writer/illustrator about growing up, coming out and her closeted father’s suicide. There was very limited backlash to the choice by some uber conservative/Christian students but it was a handful students if that who objected.

12

It really does seem like you want Duke. And there is nothing wrong with that. I would consider someone who sees themselves at Grinnell having a hard time conceptualizing themselves at Duke or Darthmouth. That would be my daughter for example. She had a lot of interest in Grinnell and similar colleges and totally none in Duke.

OTOH, Duke and Darthmouth are more similar I would think in vibe.

BTW, Duke had a huge ad campaign last year supporting LBGTQ students. It was pretty cool. And their recent application had a question about what the student preferred to identify as. So there is definitely an effort there. And your presence there can make an impact on campus.

Go where you feel would be the best academic/social/financial fit. If you can swing it financially, do Duke.
I don’t have any investment in this btw.

1 Like
13

Duke is a private university and the law has no bearing on Duke.

https://today.duke.edu/2016/03/genderid

Durham’s city council has also voted in favor of repeal.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article70554782.html

The majority of Duke students are NOT members of Greek organizations. Your tour guides were clearly not a representative sample.

@csdad2, it would be very myopic to pick Grinnell over Duke because of the marginal difference in cost. Specially considering the fact that the difference in starting salaries is significantly higher than $24,000

14

@goingnutsmom, Great post!

15

I’d talk with students at each of those schools about their experience. How much does money matter to your family? If it matters alot, go with Grinnell. Otherwise, go with Duke–if you can visit all the schools?

16

The idea that Duke is a private university and isn’t affected by this law is, frankly, nonsense. It still exists in that context, and is impacted by the laws and the environment surrounding it. And even if technically there was no legal impact, what are you going to do, tell LGBTs not to set a foot off campus or do anything that’s not wholly part of the university? Remember, part of this law repealed local laws protecting LGBTs and restricted localities within the state from enacting such laws.

Likewise, it’s nice that the campus and the city have shown that they don’t approve of the law, but that really doesn’t mean much. It might even be that the majority of people in the state think it’s bad. What needs to happen is that this law is repealed in its entirety, and the people who voted for it/signed it voted out of office.

Regarding the cost difference, it would be myopic not to consider it. $28K is not marginal! And I’m even one who thinks that it’s not unreasonable to pay more for certain schools, depending on the circumstances – there are many on this site who are pretty adamant against it. The circumstances here aren’t totally clear, but the OP suggests that they’re lower income, that the Duke cost already includes some loans (will they even be able to cover the difference?), and that it may impact their family finances.

Further, I don’t put that much trust in those salary surveys, especially without context, because it’s not clear how they consider things like major/field and what part of the country people are living in (and hence COL/average salary).

Finally, @NerdyChica, I believe you’re a Duke alum, and might have a bias here.

17

Dartmouth: “I’m not the party type, and as an LGBT student, I’m worried about finding the right group of friends among such a small group of people.”

Duke: “In addition, I’ve heard the students there can be rather competitive at times. Having endured being a part of a hyper competitive friend group during high school, this makes me anxious.”

Maybe you should delve more deeply into what Grinnell has to offer? True it is smaller than Duke or Dartmouth, and Grinnell, IA is hardly a bustling metropolis. But it is LGBT friendly, no frats, lots happening on campus, and you’d get a lot of personal attention from faculty and be around intellectually-engaged classmates. The vibe is said to be more collaborative than competitive.

18

If you really think that the Durham police department has nothing better to do than patrol bathrooms in restaurants around Duke’s campus you are badly mistaken. The law will almost certainly be repealed in the next legislative session. It will not be enforced in the vicinity of Duke’s campus and to suggest otherwise is wrongheaded.

This is NOT a salary survey. This is data that the federal government has obtained from tax forms. It is 100% accurate.

Also, there is no “if”. The law has absolutely no bearing on Duke. That is a fact it’s not a matter of opinion.

19

Duke is in the state of North Carolina. Many people and businesses do not want to go to NC or do business in that state because of the law. I am Jewish. If NC passed a law that said that Jews can’t use the same bathrooms as non-Jews, I wouldn’t care that Duke disagreed with the law. No way would I be attending any school in that state.

Also, as for the salary, doesn’t Duke have an engineering school? I would assume that engineering grads raise the average early-career salary.

20

Has the president of Duke responded to the new law? I heard a report that UNC- CH’s president said that it would be enforced on their campus. I think it would be advised to see what Duke opines on the matter.

I’m actually glad my kids were never interested in any NC school.