What might be interesting for the OP to consider looking into is how much / what the Duke students themselves are doing about the law. Are they being active in response? It would seem to me that this would be important information to have about the student body. So far, posters have talked about things the administration does to support issues of sexual and gender identity. Is it only top-down where the administration is leading the way or is it also bottoms-up, where student concerns are being raised and listened to?
@nerdychica – While it may seem likely the law will be repealed in the next legislative session, those of us with experience living in states which have passed legislation seemingly at odds with the weight of public sympathy have seen that the intelligent relief people expect, doesn’t always come to pass.
Here in Indiana, our Governor promoted and the legislature passed a state law which purported to be similar to the federal RFRA, but in fact, was a far more “conservative” piece of legislation. After a public relations disaster, with companies, major sporting events etc. threatening to bail out, the legislature amended the statute, but no one is quite clear what it means or what the impact has been on the state. Plus, that particular legislative fight turned out to be a warm up for this year’s legislative session, with a series of additional “culture wars” type legislation. Similarly, in Wisconsin, when Gov Walker launched his attack on the UW system, many – including myself – thought the budget cuts and limits on power would not go through. They did. When a conservative governor has a conservative majority in the legislature, there are no guarantees about “fixes” going through. From the experience of someone who has watched in disbelief at some surprising legislative action, thinking the “grown ups” would step in and fix it – there aren’t necessarily “grown ups” in the NC legislature willing to tackle this issue.
For a student who travels in and out of NC, is engaged in internships, research, or community service off campus, for the time being, this is a real consideration.
Don’t listen to these people. Don’t choose a college based on some law that has nothing to do with the school. I go to duke and can tell you that there has been absolutely no difference before or after this law. Objectively, I would pick duke. 28k difference in money is relatively nothing compared to life earnings difference. As objectively as I can say this, Duke is on the up trend while dartmouth is on the down trend.
Actually, I recommend that @csdad2 continue preaching high and low.
I want him to drive down admissions to all North Carolina colleges … so that my D can apply to Duke next fall with less competition. 
It’s just so annoying that people are exploiting a law that has absolutely no impact on students’ lives to further an agenda. If you were to attempt to dissuade someone from attending UNC based on HB2 that could be legitimate (because UNC is within the ambit of the law) but you simply cannot make the case against Duke (in good conscience).
Try to promote Grinnell by pointing out an area in which it is superior to Duke. If you cannot find any data to make a compelling argument in favor of Grinnell, let the OP make the decision that is likely to secure his/her family’s future. It’s one thing to tell a wealthy student to go to Grinnell even though he/she is likely to make significantly more money as a Duke graduate. It’s quite another to tell a student from the OP’s socioeconomic background to make a decision based on completely irrelevant factors. Specially if you know that he/she is likely to regret the decision when it’s time to get a job and support a family…
Duke, as a private institution, is not an arm of the state like UNC, so has more latitude in enforcement. We went through something similar in Indiana last year with RFRA, and that law would have a potential impact on students the minute they walked off campus at Notre Dame, or Butler or any other private institutions in the state. As the OP specifically said they are concerned about inclusion in terms of LBGT issues, this is a relevant consideration.
More substantively, for a student with high need, Grinnell is the least expensive option, and Grinnell is a community and institution which is committed to socio-economic, racial, ethnic, LGBT inclusion. The President of Grinnell is a gay man, married, with children. I, and others, have encouraged the OP to research the options rather than, as the OP has stated they are trying to move away from, simply getting carried away by prestige and reputation.
What is the best choice for this student? With close faculty mentoring, phenomenal resources for student funding for research, internships, travel abroad, Grinnell could be a great option. Of course, Duke is a superb school. The question is, where will the OP flourish, academically, personally, without financial burden. Only the OP can decide that.
^ Just to be clear (and put this to bed) there is no “latitude” in enforcement because there is no enforcement. The law doesn’t apply.
I’m referring to the part of the law which provides that local ordinances banning discrimination against LGBT community are invalid.
So, if local communities such as Raleigh or Durham had laws protecting against LGBT discrimination, those are now invalid and unenforceable under state law. Students who might venture forth off of campus of a private school cannot rely on local ordinances prohibiting LGBT discrimination.
The law doesn’t apply … until the student steps off Duke’s campus.
NerdyChica, there is not a single one of your 458 posts where you have not just constantly pushed Duke down everyone’s throat. It’s a bit much. This student has 3 excellent choices - trying to portray Duke as the best is just so insecure on your part.
Wow. @NerdyChica would love to put this to bed, getting the last word in. She will educate the OP with the facts, no one else need bother offering their comments. But really what she’s offered is more unsubstantiated claims than facts.
As has been stated, the idea that this law isn’t relevant to Duke is nonsense.
Easy example. Duke LGBT person tries to find an apartment in Durham. After initial agreement on a place, the landlord discovers they are LGBT and denies them the apartment. Later they are looking for a job, but again are refused because they are LGBT. What to do. Wait, Durham has an ordinance that forbids such discrimination. But wait again, the new North Carolina law overrules that ordinance. Duke LGBT person is out of luck.
Further, take a look at the statement that Duke came out with:
https://today.duke.edu/2016/03/genderid
It really doesn’t say much. It’s three sentences long, mentioning the principles they’re committed to and that they deplore the new law. But nothing near the grandiose claims that Duke students will not be impacted at all that some in this thread are making.
And what @Midwestmomofboys says is significant. Don’t just assume this law will be repealed soon completely and that’ll be the end of it. The Republicans tried to sneak it through, and will do simlar to minimize any repeal. They’ve already been downplaying the backlash, blaming it on the media. Even if they end up feeling they must do something, they can just make slight adjustments to the bill, and make a big deal that they’ve dealt with it, as they did in Indiana. Then they’ll just make other anti-LGBT laws. What we need to see is a complete repeal of this law, and the people who voted for it voted out of office. Talk to me when that happens.
^ I can come up with nonsensical hypotheticals as well. Easy example. Grinnell LGBT person tries to find an apartment in whatever random part of Iowa Grinnell is in. After an initial agreement is in place, the landlord discovers that they are LGBT and does not deny them the apartment. The student is thrilled but is struck by lightning on the way back to Grinnell.
That scenario is about as likely as the one you described.
This has nothing to do with Duke’s statement. It is the way the law was written. “McCrory’s office says businesses aren’t limited by the bill, and that private companies and private universities can adopt new or keep existing nondiscrimination policies.”
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article68401147.html
@Pizzagirl Come at me with facts please. Make a case for Grinnell. Dispense with the theatrics.
I don’t need to “come at you.” It’s just … very interesting that it seems to be impossible for you to say, when faced with a student who is deciding between Duke and any other similar elite school, “those are all great choices, choose whichever one most speaks to you.” There have been other Duke boosters who have done the same. It just looks so ungracious and odd that you have to insist on Duke’s superiority on every dimension.
Right, private entities are not required to implement the bathroom portion of the law, but the rest of the legislation provides that NO local anti-discrimination ordinances/protection are valid.
So the hypothetical about apartment hunting, internships etc. are all valid. Discrimination because a person is LGBT is legal in NC, even if local jurisdictions want to provide otherwise. So, Durham, Raleigh etc. can’t just choose to be discrimination-free zones, because the State law says their laws banning LGBT discrimination are unenforceable. There is no remedy for LGBT discrimination, even if the local laws would otherwise allow it.
Back to the OP – who is trying to decide between the more affordable option of Grinnell – a highly regarded LAC – and Duke – a highly regarded private research university. The OP said they are concerned about not being swayed by prestige and reputation, are very concerned about finances, and want an LGBT-friendly community. Many of us said Grinnell is a great option, and that just because it is cheaper or in Iowa does not make it less desirable. As I noted earlier, the President of Grinnell is a gay man, married to his partner, with kids. Grinnell is one of the most diverse and tolerant LACs out there, with a $1.5 billion endowment which allows it to pour money into undergrad experiences and opportunities.
The OP has two (three, really, but Dartmouth seems to have fallen off their list) options, all of which will provide a superb education and experience, but they are different. None of them are obviously the “right” choice, most of us here are just offering our insight and advice about factors to consider.
@Pizzagirl I have said that when I believe that both schools are equally good. I’ve said it about Chicago and if I was asked to choose between Duke and Stanford I’d probably choose the latter.
At the end of the post, there is a statement about family financial flux.
“As my family’s source of income can very well fluctuate in the next four years, a full ride can give me the added sense of security”
Peace of mind is a powerful thing.
And an extra $28,000.00 at the end of 4 years is a lot of money to most college grads.
Grinnell is an incredible school… no sacrifice there.
There are differences between these 3 excellent schools. But they have one thing in common…THEY ARE ALL GREAT.
If it were me, I would make sure I had as little to worry about as possible.
The OP says he will discuss the potential impact of the new law with students at Duke. No further need for us here to speculate on what it does or doesn’t mean for this student.
We are also not privy to his finances, so can’t really opine on whether the $28k is a deal breaker or not. That’s for him and his family to work out.
@midnightpizza “No sacrifice there” … except for the fact that we’ve already established that recent Duke graduates make nearly twice as much money.
@wisteria100 Solid post!
I would want to investigate more to decide whether you are comfortable being LGBT in the south. I would proceed with caution.
^ Yes, Duke’s big bad campus is very dangerous for LGBT individuals… What a farce.
Duke is such a bastion of conservatism (insert sarcasm):
http://stanfordreview.org/article/following-money-stanford-faculty-overwhelmingly-fa/
“Broadening the results to the entire election, the Stanford faculty donated $568,720 to Democratic candidates, and only $15,650 to Republicans. To compare to some other elite schools, Harvard donated $542,720 to Democrats and $30,551 to Republicans. Looking at a non-Ivy elite school, the faculty at Duke University donated $149,347 to Democrats and $23,850 to Republicans. While each of these schools exhibits an overwhelming preference for Democratic candidates, it is worth noticing that the ratio of Democrat to Republican donations was the most extreme at Stanford.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/duke-faculty-gifts-overwhelmingly-favor-dems/