DD is a freshman and met with advisor the other day as is planning on taking summer courses at a branch. DD was told that since dd had taken 3 criminology courses that dd needed to major in criminology or dd would be behind and need to go another semester. DD possibly interested in law or 2nd degree nursing- not sure. DD is a bit stressed as DD was originally told that in DUS the student could take classes of interest as gen Ed’s…the first year or two, but now is being told needed to take pre major courses freshman year. DD is is planning on emailing advisor but is a bit discouraged to be told that if doesn’t stay in criminology DD will be a few semesters behind? Any thoughts/experiences? Poly sci would be a better major interested in law?
DUS is truly for kids who want to explore or are in the midst of switching majors or weren’t really sure. A few questions I will try to share my thoughts.
- major choice? Nursing is direct entry. I don’t know if there is any way she can apply, but I would assume not.
It sounds like she is moving towards a criminology major. There are requirements for GenEds - you can’t just take anything. For example, 6 or 9 credits of GN (science), 6 credits of GA (Arts), plus the GH requirements (Humanities). They also have the interdomain requirement. Every college is slightly different. There are also some generic “elective” courses.
- declaring a major. There is usually a credit window to do so. Every major is different. Usually it is in the 44-59 window but check with each college. Some colleges - IST, Business, Engineering are more strict because they are “controlled” majors. Other colleges are more flexible with when you apply. You are required to have ETM (entrance to major) courses completed within that window and when you apply.
google “RAP” or “recommended academic plan” for each major she is thinking about. Look at those ETM classes and ensure she is taking them. Don’t trust an advisor to do that for you. (they should be helping, but this is too big to let someone else oops).
Remember at NSO each kid had homework? They had to write down 3 possible majors. The advisors (were supposed to) used that to help them craft their freshman classes with getting those ETM out of the way as well as doing some ‘exploring’. Go back and think about it that way.
I can’t imagine how she could be a “few semesters” behind. That would mean this entire year was lost. That doesn’t make sense. But sit down with your D and help her craft the right courses for fall (registration is coming up quickly).
As for what makes sense as pre-law, I have no clue. My only advice is to find something else for her to major in that she could get a job with if she doesn’t do law. Or think about what kind of law she would do and craft that major now. For example, business law, she could major in economics now. Social justice? How about sociology or psychology. Defense attorney? Criminology. Patent law? science classes.
@lucyvanpelt - Thank you for your very in depth response!
I agree, no way can a whole semester or two be lost… we need to think where the criminology courses can be applied within other majors as a criminology major is not an option…
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Nursing - was an afterthought after enrolled in the fall. Nursing would be taken as a second degree program following graduation at another branch/institution.
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Needs to start thinking about major - advised to go to DUS website and attend some specific major info sessions such as law etc… I think Poly Sci would be a good major if Law is a definite consideration. Could have one degree in Poly Sci and then continue on to 2nd degree nursing for the second degree… At lease the Advisor is advising on what science/math courses are needed when applying for the second degree program
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I remember the homework at NSO, last summer it was science, law or engineering… engineering is out so we are down to a science background (nursing) or Law (maybe history would be good for this as well as poly sci…)
I agree 100 percent we need to figure out what DD can get a job in after graduation. I hear stories about potential pre meds majoring in biology or pre-med and not getting into medical and then not having a degree for another job…
My children changed their majors MULTIPLE times and my daughter is still graduating on time (in May!) and my son will as well (unless he changes again!). He’s a second semester sophomore telecom major, but considering changing again to film in which case he’d be there a year long (and mama isn’t too happy with that).
There are entry to major classes for many majors, but also for many, there are none. So if changing from say Criminology (where there are no entry to major requirments other than having a 2.0) to say, Political Science (which also has no entry to major requirements) will be no problem. The problem comes if in sophomore year your child says, Hey, I now want to be an engineer! That’s likely not going to happen because they will not have enough time to meet engineering’s entry to major requirements. It’s so hard for 18 year olds to pick what they want to do. It can be hard for 46 year olds too (see next paragraph!)
I am 46 years old and just finishing nursing school next month (3rd career (and degree!) later, hello major changes lol!) and the best thing I can advise if your child is intending to do the second degree thing is to major in something biology based. Look at the pre requisites needed for that nursing school. It is likely she could complete her degree with all of the pre reqs included and go straight into nursing schoool. If she isn’t sure and majors in poly sci, she should take the anatomy and physiology, chems, bio’s, psych etc…as electives. That way she is set for the pre reqs for nursing school.
She CAN change her major multiple times, but as she gets further into school, WHAT she can change to will drastically decrease as she phases out of the timeline for certain majors.
Thank you @jihpsu - I could not believe an advisor would say that to a student at this early stage. I think DD needs to keep better track of courses and where the courses fall with respect to majors. Yes the positive thing the advisor did was provide info on what science/math pre reqs need to be taken in order to go directly into 2nd degree program if there is interest- already has chem 110 completed…and looking at taking science courses over summer…
@krabbiek use “what-if report” on lion path. very helpful when switching majors. tells you exactly what is needed for each major with the courses the student has already taken. invaluable tool.
Thank you @SAD1010
I wouldn’t advise to pick a major now for a potential second career later on. She may change her mind between now and the beginning of Fall semester, and again in the Spring… who knows what she’ll do 20 years down the road? Or even what jobs will or will not exist? 
She’s in DUS, she is allowed to be undecided and explore, that’s the whole point. She should join the Living Learning Communities for undecided students (“Discovery” or “Paterno Fellow Aspirants”. Paterno Scholars have the best residence hall :p)
@MYOS1634 Its fine to take classes to explore but there are very important SMALL credit windows for popular majors. You can not explore endlessly.
I just checked the window: it’s 40 to 58 credits at Penn State, which means during your 2nd semester in the Spring.
Freshman year = 30 credits → +15-17 Fall Sophomore = 45-47 credits at start of Spring sophomore year → at the end of the Spring semester sophomore year the student will have 60 credits and must have chosen by the end of that year.
That leaves some leeway, 4 full semesters before the major is official.
By taking the most common freshman gen eds (a math class, an English class, a communications class, a science with lab, a foreign language, one or two social sciences…) you guarantee that all your credits “count” since they all count toward gen ed credits regardless of major and they allow students to stay “on track”.
Engineering is very rigid so it doesn’t work - but OP has said Engineering was not on the table.
Also, usually, students have a general idea of the field they’re interested in: for instance, criminology, psychology, sociology, international relations, political science, global studies. They can “test” a few of these classes freshman and Fall sophomore year, even switching if need be (there’s no “shopping period” but students can still sit on classes A and B then either keep A or drop it to take B.) There should be one slot Fall and two in the Spring, expecting no AP credit (more if the student has AP credit).
Things are winnowed for sophomore year Spring of course, but hopefully at that point the student knows what they’re interested in since they’ve taken so many different classes, including intermediate-level classes.
@MYOS1634 my daughter is a second-semester sophomore and has 83 credits with all the AP classes, research and LA/TA credits…credits add up quick.
As far as I know they only count the “credits at Penn State”, not AP credits (although those count toward graduation)?
@MYOS1634 not sure if that is true. D17 advising transcript lists all credits. However, you can choose to drop AP credits to make certain credit windows.
@krabbiek One of my sons is a junior at another university, majoring in finance (with minors in Econ and Accounting), and he plans to go to law school. We were told that as long as you take enough writing intensive courses (which are required at his school, and I believe at Penn State as well), any major is ok for law school.
@krabbiek, as a current attorney and graduate from Penn State almost 30 years ago (BA political science, business minor, secretary of the Prelaw Society at UP 1989-1991), I would not recommend majoring in prelaw. She can get into law school and become a lawyer with pretty much any undergraduate degree. English, Philosophy and Poli Sci are probably the most common, but I also know several physics, theater, and psychology majors who opted for law school and are now very successful attorneys. One of my law school classmates even got a dual RN/JD so that she could be an expert witness. But having a Prelaw major can be somewhat limiting if she doesn’t go to law school, so I would suggest unless she is absolutely certain, to major in something besides Prelaw. Good luck to your daughter! (My son is accepted at UP as a Kinesiology major, but is still really undecided as to whether he wants to do that or something else, so I feel your pain!).
I agree. A solid major (English, Philosophy, Political Science are commonly successful, but International relations with an area and/or linguistic specialty can also be very strong) is better. You can complement it with specific, more professional classes - statistics, non fiction writing, etc.