DVM/PhD vs. PhD alone

Pre-Vet & Veterinary Medicine
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hello everyone. i want to do veterinary research in the future. i am majoring in biochemistry for undergrad. i am unsure if i should go for a DVM after my bachelors or if i am fine with a PhD. i want to do a PhD in biochemistry or genetics and i am wondering if i can do veterinary research with that, or if i need a DVM. i have a few more questions:

  • what’s the difference between someone that does vet research with a DVM/PhD vs PhD only?
  • i heard you can do vet research without a DVM, but would you still be considered a “veterinary scientist”?
  • if a PhD alone is fine, do i need a PhD in specifically veterinary science/medicine or is biochemistry/genetics fine?
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You can do veterinary research with either degree. The roles differ somewhat between DVM and PhD, but there’s more overlap than most people would think.

I am a PhD who does research with DVMs. The term “veterinary scientist” isn’t well defined and doesn’t really matter to us. Like I guess I’m a veterinary scientist? There’s a vet on staff in my lab (part-time) and I do work with some large animal models (i.e., bigger than rats) so I could call myself that, but I’ve never thought about it.

People who do research within the vet field come from all sorts of backgrounds and hold all sorts of degrees.

Practically speaking, there’s a lot of overlap in the roles that a DVM and PhD would fill. In our lab, all non-survival surgeries, and some survival surgeries are done by non-DVMs. Our lab DVM does any difficult survival surgeries, and consults on a lot of our other stuff. However, we could do the stuff we do without a DVM if we really needed to. We’d just have to get more help from our institutional vets. Our DVM never did much research before us, so isn’t too helpful with experimental design, data interpretation, etc. However, some other DVMs that have a lot of research experience can and do it all.

Vet school is expensive and hard to get into, while PhD program admission is much easier and you’ll get paid a small stipend while you do it.

However, Job prospects for PhDs in vet science aren’t very good. You’d most likely be looking at working as a poorly-paid technician if you don’t manage to nab the brass ring of getting a job as a principal investigator (a professor running a lab). DVMs can also be lab heads. I’ve known quite a few that don’t practice anymore and just do research. Some DVMs are vet school professors and just teach, others also do research.

DVMs make more money on average, but schooling is crazy expensive and it’s not like most vets are raking it in. So I’d say neither route is guaranteed to be particularly lucrative. Will you be employed? Yes. Will you be well-compensated? Maybe.

The most important thing is to get and stay involved with some sort of biomedical research. You don’t have to work with animals, but it might help you figure out what you’d like to do.

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This is extremely helpful advice! My D26 is also looking into this field, would you mind if I PM’d you a few more questions?

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fire away!

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I should have added something to this. Doing any type of biomedical research will be useful for deciding if you’d like to do a PhD. Getting into a PhD program will not require direct animal experience (you could work with cells in a petri dish, for example).

But if you’re leaning towards DVM, you’ll need experience working with animals in order to get into vet school. You’ll need clinical shadowing, and you’ll need experience with a variety of species.

And, similar to someone wanting to be an MD, you’ll want to do a lot of reading about the profession and its pros and cons, and speak with a lot of DVMs in different position types and career stages.

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One thing that I do not know and I am wondering whether @ColdWombat could answer: If you already have one of a DVM or PhD, does this make it any easier to get the other?

At least based on what I have seen as a parent and/or sibling of a doctorate student, getting either a DVM or a PhD is a long path that requires a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of hard work. This is not for the faint of heart.

My daughter who recently earned her DVM has said that many students in her program were taking on way too much debt. This is an expensive to get a degree that does lead to a good job, but not a job that allows you to pay off a large debt without quite a bit of hardship.

The stipend part I agree with. PhD programs at least in North America typically cover the cost of tuition and fees and health insurance, and also pay a modest stipend.

Admissions to PhD programs can be tough. One daughter is currently studying in a program that had about a 3% acceptance rate a bit more than a year ago. This most recent round the acceptance rate was even lower due to budget cuts (at one point they were deciding whether to accept anyone at all, I do not know how this came out). Of course admissions to DVM programs is also very competitive.

This is interesting.

To me it is hard to imagine anything that could happen to the economy that would put most DVMs out of work. If we have animals, then we will need DVMs. If we eat, we will have animals. Being a DVM is not going to be super lucrative. If you take the full cost of a DVM program as debt then you are likely to have problems paying it off. DVM work can be hard work and can involve working weekends and evenings. However, if you are a DVM and if you somehow got there without much debt, and if you are fine with working hard and dealing with a wide range of sick animals and their distraught humans, then to me this seems like a reliable, solid, and admirable profession.

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