Hello, my son is seriously considering this program with the transfer to Columbia University. He has been admitted to 16 universities but really seems to love Earlham the most. @microbial40 if you or any other alumni could reply on why he might want to consider this program over a traditional engineering school, so he can do a chemistry degree and study Japanese on the side before traditional engineering transfer in Year 4, please post here.
Con: Most people will advise you against 3/2 programs.
Pro: He’ll be somewhere he loves if he decides not to continue with engineering.
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My son was accepted to a ton of traditional ABET programs, including one of the best in the world. (ranked #2 in the world according to USN). That said, he wants to get a PhD and thrives in small classes (not available at a top state flagship) and he wants to study Japanese/work on a college newspaper/travel widely. I grew up near Earlham and he’ exactly the type of kid Earlham recruits. I think he wants some perspectives from alumni.
I am not an alum, but know many, and my kid considered Earlham (but felt like it was too similar to his Quaker boarding school.) The faculty is very caring and invested in student success. The alums I have met are thoughtful, caring, and good at building community. We felt like Earlham was a special place, and DS’ friends who went there had a good experience.
If your son is feeling like it’s the place for him, it may well be. (And it isn’t like others.) It’s warm, accepting, and has a reputation for excellent teaching and engaged learning. My guess is that they would help your child connect with alums/students if he wants that.
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You have four issues off the top of my head.
- A year of additional tuition
- A year of income loss
- Leaving your friends a year b4 they leave and having to make new friends where they are already established.
- What if you’re not accepted ?
Want engineering and you know it in advance ? A 3/2 makes zero sense IMHO of course.
There’s no such thing as a dream school. All have bad profs, dorms, roomies, food, whatever. There will be other schools with engineering he can like as much - he just doesn’t realize it.
Good luck.
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We actually ran some numbers. Given the scholarship offer at the 3/2 school, it would actually be cheaper for him to go there and Columbia than it would to attend our very expensive state flagship, even with in-state tuition and a small merit scholarship to the state flagship. We are in an income bracket where Columbia would match the aid offer from Earlham. My son also wants a PhD, not a direct entry into industry.
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I don’t know what you’re paying and stats but there are many schools.
You can do it, of course.
You still lose a year of income - and I promise you, no one at 17 truly knows they want a PhD or what it entails…but forgetting that, again, you have risk with even getting into Columbia.
The good news though is - it’s not just Columbia - that might be his desire but the others, just in case, might be easier admits…
If it’s what you decide, best of luck.
I’m risk averse and it’s taking on a lot of risk - which you may be comfortable with.
Not just admissions risk - but social risk.
I wish your son well whatever he decides - well, sounds like he’s already decided.
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He hasn’t fully decided but he’s definitely leaning 3/2. He was admitted to U of Illinois Urbana Champaign Grainger Engineering for Materials Science, the No. 2 program of its kind in the world…but it’s not a great place for undergraduates. It’s built for grad students. If he’s willing to turn that down, it’s a personal decision on his part. He got into 14 other ABET programs too, all with scholarships. He’s not someone lacking in options so that’s why I’m seeking input. I grew up near Earlham and he is exactly the type of kid that fits there. But he still needs to know all the variables.
As far as social risk…he’s a solitary kid who is comfortable with other nerds. He usually does not factor social circles into his decisionmaking. His friends at his high school are going to schools like MIT, UIUC, West Point, and Princeton.
Sounds like he’s very well thought out. Best of luck.
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Thanks. I think his biggest concern is, he knows he doesn’t learn well in huge lecture halls. He is visually impaired and doesn’t want to wash out, even with his learning accomodations. When we did the admitted student day at UIUC Engineering he was definitely alarmed. It had previously been his first choice school and he just did a total 180.
If your son is thinking PhD, keep in mind that those programs are highly competitive and undergraduate research will need to feature prominently. I have a chem e Purdue grad who has a concentration in material and polymer science and her peers who went on to PhDs from undergrad started doing research as early as freshman year. I would want to understand what research and publication opportunities are available that align with his interests, and how the faculty supports and mentors students who are planning on this 3/2 path to engineering. Another issue is that at some schools undergrads can take graduate level course as early as junior year. That can help establish more depth in their area of interest to make them more attractive to graduate programs.
Just saw your last post about your son being turned off by large lecture halls. Does he have any acceptances to smaller schools that have a traditional pathway with access to engineering classes earlier?
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All of his admitted schools would allow him to be straight into Engineering. He has already completed Calc I and multiple other science APs. But he would still have to do large lecture halls for the Chem/Physics classes (at minimum) at all schools, and UIUC-Illinois is a total meat grinder that uses lectures as weed-outs despite being an elite program. He did not get into UIUC Honors Program which would mitigate this; he got into Honors everywhere else. Some very prominent Earlham graduates have offered to speak with my son, they are all doing very advanced work in sciences/engineering. So we know it’s possible. He seems to like it there. My husband is skeptical but my father (himself a retired nuclear/chemical engineer and academic) is not…he knows Earlham too. I do know that anyone who isn’t the right “fit” at Earlham is often miserable. I have no concerns about my son being able to handle extremely rigorous academics. But he would crash/burn in any large lecture-hall, uber-competitive/cutthroat environment, at least as a freshman/sophomore.
My son seems like he would fit well in the Earlham sciences department and he wants to do research the minute he steps foot on campus. That’s not possible at places like UIUC, Ohio State, or some other smaller ABET programs where he’s admitted. He also wants to study Japanese and study abroad multiple times.
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That’s important too. Is there no accommodations ? While classes will be smaller - at least at Earlham, but are you sure he can see there too ?
I would check accommodations at EVERY school.
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We’ve had the Disability Services conversation at every school. Illinois has accomodations but they don’t budge on the lecture halls bit. Earlham has accommodations too. Small-group testing and teaching is always where he’s done the best/been able to see.
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If there are any other Earlham alumni here, especially those with experience in the Chemistry/Physics/Astronomy department, my son would love to talk to you.
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I would disagree - you have to ask or seek but my son’s gf did this at Bama. But you need to self advocate. Even first years get email solicitations for research. Also, club life might be less at Earlham …do they have Formula SAE, as an example, where kids are engineering outside of class?
Also, some believe you should repeat major classes - so AP math and science in college. We learned this at the School of Mines student panel. My son didn’t listen and started in Calc 2 and had to WD. He said it wasn’t the class but the prof - who knows.
I think the vision thing is critical and all schools may handle differently, regardless of size.
When the time comes, I’d check supports for grad school too - there’s more than Columbia and you have WUSTL and RPI. I’m not even sure Columbia is best.
And @momofboiler1 makes a great point - in a 3-2, will you have earned an advocate for PhD entry ?
Best of luck.
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I completely understand your concern about large lecture halls at big schools and the meat grinder to weed out students. Ugh! Please spare me.
What I’m confused about is just what his other alternatives are. Is it that he only submitted applications to schools too big for first year students to get involved in research plus Earlham, a liberal arts college with 600+ students?
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He’s admitted to some smaller ABETs where research from the minute he arrives is possible, yes. They are either not great for his visual impairment needs or are unaffordable due to low aid offers. He was seriously considering Ohio State until their crazy governor signed an anti-DEI law that shut down most of their disability advocacy office/support system, and he got no scholarships there. He got into Bama (unaffordable, poor disability support) and a few other state flagships in the South with massive aid, but again…the current administration is wiping out disability services/inclusion across the board. It’s a mess.
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I think he would be fine at UIllinois-Chicago, a smaller program in ChemEng where he’s also in the Honors Program. He got into Ohio University Athens which has a well-regarded ChemEng program (and a particle accelerator), a strong aid offer, nice campus/smaller classes…but again, that weird law in Ohio is wiping out disability support. Hence our problem.
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This is unfortunate and I’m sorry to hear that people would not support those who are obviously beyond capable but have a limitation - like many of us do.
My god, are they going to eliminate glasses too?
But why would Earlham be different in that regard - another state with laws.