As a Rising Senior, I want to early decision to either Swarthmore, Cornell or Vanderbilt for Pre-Med. However, not really too sure which one I really want to go to for pre-med track. Likely, I’ll be reaching for all three of them but I want to really add a bit of a extra chance to getting into my top school. I know that Cornell and Vanderbilt are extremely competitive for Pre-Med and that is turning me off a bit on how much I want to go to those two. Swarthmore on the other hand has a much friendlier student base and has no bio/chem weed out classes unlike Cornell and Vanderbilt. However, it is also very academically rigorous. I love all three of their campuses and they’re all mostly the same for prestige and education. I’m mainly worried about how tough they are if I manage to get in. Any body in those three schools doing pre-med have any insight on what it’s like at these schools? Or any idea which one is more likely to be more advantageous to help get into Med school? Thanks!
Vanderbilt and Cornell appear on a list of schools that may have better than average records of furthering the goals of their premed students: “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges With Great Pre-med Programs” (available online).
Ultimately go where you think you’ll have the best overall educational experience - your best fit. These three schools are pretty different so I would imagine that one of the three is a better fit for you than the others.
That said, I have a bias in favor of LACs for pre-med by the way: I think because of their size and intimacy, they tend to have a more cooperative, less competitive vibe for pre-meds. It’s harder to get away with ‘gunner’ behaviors when you know everyone in your classes and you live and study with the same people regularly. And you get to know your faculty really well for that all important committee letter. On the other hand, Swarthmore is known for its intellectual intensity - a U Chicago comparable in that respect - so it has to be a fit in that respect.
Of course, Vanderbilt and Cornell are associated with academic medical centers, and if a career in academic medicine is your goal, then there may be an advantage there. A lot of the ‘best choice for pre-med’ lists reflect the prestige of the academic medical centers and their research opportunities, rather than the quality of life for pre-med undergrads or the quality of the academic advising for pre-meds. For example, Amherst’s guide for premeds is the gold standard in that area and it’s available to anyone who googles it.
Remember that your GPA and MCAT will trump your undergraduate institution for med school admissions. As many many many other posters (including ones who have done pre-med and whose kids are in med school) have pointed out: “pre-med” is just a group of classes that you have to take to get into med school. You can major in any subject, as long as you get those courses taken.
Vanderbilt, Cornell and Swarthmore are very very different experiences. Have you actually been to any of them during term, or just to see the grounds? Have you spent a night in the dorms or sat in on a class? Swarthmore isn’t cut throat competitive, but (imo) it is not a ‘friendlier’ student population than Vanderbilt- I would see it as the other way around (not a slap at the Swatties, who can be perfectly friendly, if not quite as outgoing on average as your typical Commodore).
You won’t get a dumbed-down version of Organic Chemistry just because you attend someplace other than Cornell or Vanderbilt. Virtually all research universities and LACs cover the full gamut of pre-med courses; they all point to the same MD/DO pathways to becoming a doctor. So you may as well choose a college based on cost, overall quality, and personal “fit” rather than worrying too much about pre-med programs or rumors about weed-out rates. But if you do come upon good, reliable information that leads you to believe one of these colleges is less supportive than the others, and you’re not comfortable with that, then avoid that college. That choice won’t close any doors to becoming a doctor.
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Likely, I’ll be reaching for all three of them
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A premed should NOT go to an undergrad that is a reach for them. That is so short-sighted. If you truly want to go to med school, then choose a good school that has premeds and premed advising, where you will have the BEST chance at getting a high GPA.
The most common problem that I see over and over again is premeds going to schools that were reaches for them (and sometimes matches for them) and then they end up with GPAs that aren’t med school worthy.
Do you care if you end up with a GPA that med schools will not accept?
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. Swarthmore on the other hand has a much friendlier student base and has no bio/chem weed out classes u
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??? Where did you get that idea? All schools weed.
I am the mother of a med student…a MS3
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Asian Male
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My Sat Scores are:
Reading:710
Math:710
Writing:690
GPA UW 3.58
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As you can guess, your chances at ED/EA admission to a top ranked school are not very high. Even with a poor frosh year performance removed, your GPA is around a 3.7. Your 1420 M+CR is modest for those schools.
Are you sure that you want to become a doctor? Are you sure that you are willing to put in the time and effort. It is a LOT of work.
If you are CERTAIN that you want to become a doctor, then you should be focusing on schools where you will be a top student, where you can SHINE, where you will get the best LORs from your profs, etc.
If you want to become a doctor then don’t put a huge hurdle in your way by attending a school where your resulting GPA will likely not be med school worthy.
I would not be too sure that attending a “reach” college will lower your chances of getting a high enough GPA for med school admission. The very limited data on grade inflation seems to suggest that if anything, some highly selective colleges actually have had more grade inflation in recent years then less selective schools.
http://www.gradeinflation.com/
It’s hard to assess to what extent these differences may be attributable to school or faculty policy vs. student ability and effort. However, I would not rule out the possibility that big, impersonal “weed out” courses tend to be common at some colleges that are not among the most selective.
I agree that my experiences here on CC and SDN are just anecdotal, but it’s just really sad to see premeds posting about how thrilled they are that they got into their reach school, and then within 12 months they’re posting that their GPAs are no longer med school worthy.
There’s a premed student now on CC who transferred from a UT-Dallas to Vandy. He had a 4.0 at UT-Dallas. This last year at Vandy has been a disaster. His GPA has now tanked.
There’s a parent here in the premed forums whose child went thru the app process this last year. She had very strong stats in high school and attended a top 10 school. Her GPA ended up being a 3.5…not horrible, but that is not a GPA that a traditional applicant should have. She didn’t even get any interview requests this year from any MD med schools. NONE. So, of course, no acceptances. It was certainly shocking for her and her parents. It this same student had gone to a very good school where nearly everyone wasn’t an ACT 34+ and 4.6 GPA, etc, I et she would have gotten a med-school worthy GPA.
These are just two of many examples that I can show. Yes, some top schools have grade inflation, but some still don’t have it in the premed prereqs.
I should have added…
The med school app process is getting more and more difficult. There is little to no forgiveness for the traditional applicant.
yes, someone who screwed up at 19, went on to do something else (maybe a military medic) and then returns to school at age 28 and then aces everything is more likely going to be given leeway.
The traditional unhooked athlete needs to have nothing on his/her app that will give adcoms reasons to move onto the next app.
And remember, that human eyes usually don’t even see the apps during the first round of down-selection.
First, these schools can’t be a giid fit because someone whod fit in at Swarthmore isn’t likely to like Vandy - are you definitely left wing andhyperfocused on your studies or are you. rather moderate/conservative and keen on a good study hard/play hard balance?
By the way when I think of top LACs ffor academics and friendliness/xooperative behavior I think Haverford, Carleton,Grinnell - not Swarthmore.
Finally. if you are serious about med school, choose a college where youre in the top 25%.
Have a look at the following guide:
http://www.swarthmore.edu/health-sciences-office/guide-applying-to-medical-school-swarthmore-undergraduates-and-alumniae
Are you able to afford these schools in addition to medical school and without graduating with 6 figure loans?
@mom2collegekids Well for Swarthmore I’m actually being recruited and my highest SAT score is now a 2260 (750 Reading, 760 Math, 750 Writing). I’m planning on retaking them again in the fall. As for Vandy, it’ll be a reach but I think I can make it in as to be honest, according to my schools statistics (in Naviance), everyone above a 2200 appears to have been accepted, regardless of GPA (like legitimately everyone haha, there’s not a single red dot in the past 7 years of someone who was rejected who applied to Vandy past the 2200 range-no early decision, all regular apps). As well as that, I think that as an Asian it will vastly improve my chances of acceptance to Vanderbilt. Cornell on the other hand will probably be much, much harder seeing as there are a lot more Asians applying there, more stringent limits on GPA and I’m not being recruited there for Swimming. On the other hand though, the prestige is very…persuasive.
Either way, I believe that I can succeed in my classes at these schools, as risky as it is. And I heard about the lack of weed out classes from current Swarthmore students and alumni. I also love the pass-fail system at Swarthmore which means essentially if I end up screwing up at pre-med I can quickly hop out of that track. Weeding out pre meds makes sense in colleges in large universities such as Cornell or medium sized like Vanderbilt but in a 1700 student body, it seems to make more sense just to make the classes naturally hard rather than putting them on a curve to knock out weaker students (although again, this is all from hearsay, for all I know they could be lying and I’ll jump in with a lovely C- curvied bio class haha).
Anyways, keeping my perspective open! I’m honestly finding it hard to fight my schools competitive atmosphere for everyone to get into their top schools vs the long term perspective of Med School. Also thinking about University of Rochester as a fit school and maybe even Boston university or University of Chapel Hill. I would love to get into Swarthmore, Cornell or Vanderbilt but as you said, it’s a pretty risky prospect.
@frugaldoctor I can afford all three of the schools without any loans.
@tk21769 Tbh, I like swarthmore a lot more than Vanderbilt atm. Haven’t visited Cornell yet though so it’ll be an interesting perspective. That’s why I’m kinda wondering which ones might be better for pre-med with apparent weed out classes + a more cut throat enviroment at Vanderbilt and Cornell vs a more co-operative environment at Swarthmore.
@collegemom3717 I visited two so far, Vanderbilt and Swarthmore. Love the friendly atmosphere at Vanderbilt but I really like the academic atmosphere at Swarthmore and the small college feeling. Also love the programs there. Although, to be honest, I have not visited during actual classes yet. I’m planning on going on a recruiting trip in October,doing an interview and an overnight trip at Swarthmore.
Thanks for responding everyone!!!
Why in the world would you retake with that score and that mix of scores? You risk being seen as a scores obsessed asian.
^I agree: no need to retake. Focus on something else, as other parts of your application will now be the differentiators.
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Well for Swarthmore I'm actually being recruited <<<
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You’re going to do a sport and be premed?
^ It’s possible but not easy. The girl next door to me in college was pre-med and ran track.
2260 would be fine even if you were applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Chicago. (Maybe not Caltech, but only because they seem to be overly score-driven.)
Re-taking the test would be a waste of time and money.
According to past banter on this site:
Swat is hard.
Cornell is hard.
Vanderbilt, comparatively, is not quite as hard.
You need a strong GPA to maximize your chances of being accepted to med school. It is a challenge to carry a 3.5 at Swat; I imagine it would be even more difficult to do so while being involved in a varsity sport.
Not that challenging yourself is wrong per se, but you have to keep your eyes on the prize: med school acceptance. If you are granted an opportunity at Swat and you take it, be prepared to work your tail off.
And remember, these are three reach schools; you are far from guaranteed a spot at any of them. It would be a good idea to apply to some match schools and a safety.