Hi! I am a senior stuck between EDing to Penn CAS or Duke. I am an asian male from California looking to major in economics. Which school would have a higher ed admission chance for me? Which school has more diversity, less of a cutthroat environment and more friendly, better social life, more recruiting from wall street banks, easier/more realistic to get a 3.7+ gpa at, a better greek life, prestige, and better for getting an mba? Is it true Duke also has a “jock” environment? Thanks!
Their ED rates are about the same, ~25%.
Penn CAS = Duke Trinity for Wall Street, at least that’s what I heard from talking to three ex-recruiters at JPMorgan, Deutsche, and Bain (not banks, but still). I would imagine that CAS students might be overshadowed by Whartonites when it comes to recruiting though.
Prestige Duke = Penn.
Penn probably has a TINY BIT less grade deflation than Duke, but I honestly don’t think this should be a factor.
Greek life at Duke is more hardcore, and whereas Penn’s might be a tad more inclusive.
People at Duke tend to be more into sport, but I don’t think it necessarily has a “jock” environment.
This is a minor point but if you take AP Econ Micro & Macro (and get 4-5s for both), Penn will allow you to skip out of 2 intro classes, whereas Duke will only allow you to skip out of one. Intro classes at Duke suck tbh.
@MBVLoveless any tips to maximize my chances for Duke in ED? How to make my essays stand out?
BUMPPP
Hi there-
both are obviously outstanding schools where you can receive a top notch education- it really depends on where you would fit in best as a student.
- As has been mentioned, Duke's ED acceptance rate and Penn's are essentially identical.
- Both are very diverse schools. Penn has 4 undergraduate schools all teaching in very different disciplines which attracts a certain level of intellectual diversity that isn't possible at Penn's peers simply because they don't have as many academic opportunities available at the undergraduate level. Ethnically, both have almost equal proportions of each race and ethnicity (http://diversity.upenn.edu/diversity_at_penn/facts_figures/ & http://newsoffice.duke.edu/all-about-duke/quick-facts-about-duke). Penn has a more vibrant LGBT community that is routinely recognized by LGBT organizations for its progressive policies and environment (http://campusprideindex.org/campuses/details/303?campus=university-of-pennsylvania & http://campusprideindex.org/campuses/details/209?campus=duke-university). Finally, Philly is in America's 5th largest city which means that life around campus ends up being significantly more diverse than it would be elsewhere. Penn's campus is just west of Center City Philly and while it doesn't feel like an urban campus in many respects because its beautiful buildings sit on a spacious, green, contiguous campus, it is just a 10-15 minute walk from the heart of one of the most spectacular cities in the world.
- Penn is the Social Ivy and has a really outstanding social scene. The best part about Penn's social life is that you can always find something that fits your interests and preferences. About 25% of Penn students are involved in Greek Life which isn't a ton but it's more than enough to provide for a great on-campus party scene. Many of Penn's other clubs from the debate team to the sports teams will throw parties as well. Philly (especially around the perimeter of Penn's campus) has many bars and clubs that students frequent (many before they're 21...) that add to nightlife as well. Philly is also a BYO city which means many students take their own alcohol to a restaurant and have dinner downtown without having to pay for alcohol at the restaurant... and often without having to be carded ;) . If you are more of a laid back, Netflix and chill kind of person, then there are definitely plenty of students who are down to just hang out in the College Houses and watch a movie or grab dinner downtown and go to an art museum. Penn's College Houses also host all sorts of events from bringing speakers to the College house and having socials to 'make your own sushi nights' and study sessions in the lounges and libraries. The combination of Penn's robust campus life and the array of opportunities afforded to you by a world class city make Penn an incredibly fun place to go to school. Being the Social Ivy also puts a lot of pressure on students not to be too cutthroat as most students realize that they're here to make friends and relationships that will last a life time. Also, this happened once to the surprise of literally everybody: http://www.businessinsider.com/playboy-upenn-top-party-school-2014-9
- More Wall Street firms come to recruit at Penn than at all but one of its peers. Students in the College are not overshadowed by Wharton at all, but instead are given unique opportunities as a consequence of having the best undergraduate business school in the world on campus. All Penn students share the EXACT same career services and every Penn student is given access to all of the same on campus recruiters, regardless of the undergraduate program you pursue. Thanks to Penn's One University Policy, as a student in the College you are also able to take as many classes as you can handle and do research in any of Penn's other undergraduate or graduate/professional schools. That means you are assured of an outstanding liberal arts education to which you can add classes specifically tailored to undergraduates in Finance, management, and more. Having Wharton helps to attract the best firms and gives every student a leg up when applying to these jobs. Penn also releases detailed, school specific information about post-graduate plans (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2013CASFinalReport.pdf) which you can compare to other schools to determine which universities are placing students in the positions to which you are most attracted. Many students interested in wall street will self-select into Wharton but there is a healthy contingent of students in the College who happily pursue these opportunities with all of the University's support behind them and without ever having taken a business class. It all depends on the type of education you want- the resources will be there to connect you to your end goals.
- Both are very difficult schools at which to earn a 3.7+ GPA. I don't think you'll find it easier at either one-- these two schools are among the most rigorous in the country.
- Prestige is silly and honestly doesn't differ that much among the top 10 universities in the US (despite what people at CC have to say about it). In the real world, most people are aware that all 10 schools provide outstanding educations and students from all of them are more than qualified for anything they want to do in life. Penn may have more pull in the Northeast and internationally because of its reputation as an Ivy. Duke probably has more sway in the South where it is pretty much unanimously considered the best school in the region. But at the end of the day, both are well known universities that will impress everyone from your Mom's friends to business executives and beyond ;)
- Penn does not have an intense sports culture. The Penn-Princeton Rivalry is fun but honestly doesn't have a lot of meaning to students at the end of the day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn%E2%80%93Princeton_basketball_rivalry). Not many students are going to be going to every game or caring that much when we lose. But Penn does usually have good football and basketball teams that many students enjoy rooting for on the weekends. It just doesn't dominate campus life.
Both are incredible institutions of higher education at which you will be given all of the best opportunities that college has to offer. I would focus more on where you think you might fit in as a student. Do sports matter to you? Is a comparatively larger Greek life something of value to you? Do you need to be in a city? Does the One University Policy and the emphasis on interdisciplinary education at Penn excite you? Focus on what matters most to you and you’ll end up in the right place.
Good luck!
@aylmaoletsgo
CAS or SEAS people are not overshadowed by whartonites for business recruiting. A career statistics and salary search on Penn s career services website will prove that. Duke and Penn are very comparable, but specifically in terms of recruiting Penn definitely has the edge. Wharton is not a detriment but a supplement/ help to engineering, and lib arts students at Penn, an asset other schools do not have. Apart from Harvard, Penn has the best business recruiting among the top schools. The career outcomes prove that.
In terms of prestige again I d say Penn has a slight edge, just by virtue of the fact that it is an Ivy and thus associated with prestige heavyweights like Harvard and Princeton. Also a lot of the prestige of a school stems from the standing of its graduate schools, and Penn has stronger grad schools across the board.
^I assume OP already made decision as ED round has passed. Saying Penn has clearly stronger recruiting and prestige because it’s an Ivy sounds a bit ridiculous though – does that hold Stanford back? Same with Duke. They are comparable and I would argue Penn is the single best “overlap” school with Duke in the country. They attract very similar student bodies and have the same overall prestige. (Duke just has much better athletics and weather 
) (As are the prestige of their graduate programs – Penn isn’t consistently stronger across the board; the differences are negligible, they are both top notch).
Looks like @Penn95 came to the Duke forum and had a field day. He/she has been making slightly inflammatory posts on several Duke threads.
Ignore this person.
One thing I like about Duke is that we are perfectly capable of standing our own ground and don’t have to rely on some historic associations with the “heavyweights” of Harvard and Princeton to make a point about our excellence/prestige.