EDII Financial Aid Package was NOTHING

kelsmom · February 21, 2009, 12:06pm

Whoa, there. “I do not want to take away from my parents lifestyle (comfortable) just in order to go to college. Thats why we hoped to get some financial aid, but as ive learned, these elite need-based colleges dont really care about what happens to the family in these situations.”

Feel entitled much?

Sorry, the statement above speaks volumes to me. Financial aid is meant to help those who DO NOT HAVE the money for college - not for those who do not want to sacrifice to go to college. Do you have a clue about the world outside your own community? Wow.

sueinphilly · February 21, 2009, 12:12pm

you can’t see where your family’s money is spent by looking at their taxes.

You CAN see where it goes by the lifestyle they lead.

I’m not suggesting this is where it goes, I’m offering it as a list of possibilities:

<ol>
<li>Are your parents supporting other family members not in your home</li>
<li>do you have huge medical costs not covered by insurance</li>
<li>what kind of cars are they driving</li>
<li>what ‘stuff’ do you have: tvs, games, clothes, restaurants, ie…‘things’</li>
<li>housing renovations that are not done because of necessity (anyone would fix a leaky roof)</li>
<li>vacations</li>
<li> Etc…</li>
</ol>

swimcatsmom · February 21, 2009, 12:29pm

This does not work at all. Dependent for tax purposes and dependent for financial aid are two completely different things. None of the dependency questions are about whether you are a dependent for tax purposes. Unless you are 24 or older you are probably going to be a dependent for FAFSA (unless you are married, have a dependent of your own, are a veteran, ward of the court etc etc). My son returned to school at 22 after 2 1/2 years working full time, living in his own place and not being a dependent on our tax returns. For financial aid he is a dependent. His girlfriend returned at 23 after living on her own and nor being a dependent for tax prurposes for over 4 years. She was a dependent for financial aid purposes (until the next year when she turned 24).

sblake7 · February 21, 2009, 12:32pm

Hollylove:

"Where on earth do you live that a family who makes 150k can afford all that?? "

Like you, I live in the Los Angeles area. And I didn’t say that a family making 150K can afford all of that, but certainly most families making 150K will be spending money on some of that.

I think my suggestions are reasonable things to consider to cut expenses and save for college. That’s a lot of money that’s going somewhere. OP has said that he’s traveled to every continent except Australia and Antarctica, so that might provide some context to the lifestyle. Travel is expensive, but it’s a choice.

cptofthehouse · February 21, 2009, 12:56pm

I know many families who bring home $12K or more a month and they are hurting. Yes, hurting. No, I am not asking for sympathy for them. What they did was take some financial risks that did not pan out. Many of them did save money and their savings are a fraction of what they were. THey bought a nice home in a good neighborhood that they figured they could sell as the kids got older and they did not need as much space. The market is such now, that they cannot afford to sell. With such a home, the expenses are high. Utilities, taxes, upkeep all are up there. You don’t need much trouble with a house to cost you a lot of money. I’ve been hit twice in the last 3 months by unexpected necessary home repair, and it can really hurt. If credit lines have been tightened, it is even more of a problem. If kids are in a private school or well entrenched in some extracurriculars, it can hurt to pull them. Kids could be in orthodonture or other medical situations that cost too. Throw in a pay cut, job loss, a disaster, increase in insurance and a private college can very easily become unaffordable even at that pay level. It does not take a lot of imagination to see this scenario, and not necessarily a lot of irresponsibility to end up in this situation.

In our case, we are cutting out vacation this summer so that money can go towards my son’s college expenses and bring down what we are going to borrow. We should have done the same the year before, but did not do so when we got an exceptional opportunity at a lower than market price. Now even something cheaper than that cannot be considered. The little ones are in sports and really should go to some sort of camps for that–costs money. Need to fly the college kid home–money. Have one graduating from college–costs money–we will go to the graduation and stay a night there, have dinner out, etc, etc. A lot of money already earmarked. Not absolutely necessary, but they are things that make our life what it is.

hmom5 · February 21, 2009, 1:14pm

The issue is most probably the lifestyle your parents want to lead. You talk about a house, 2 cars and a vacation as though no family lives without them. Most folks would think they died and went to heaven if they had $800K in the bank and a home they owned.

Like anything else, consumers get to choose how they divide up the monthly nut. I agree that $150K a year does not make a family feel rich in America today. But with that income being pension and a part-time job, it’s should be pretty comfortable. Your father could step the work up for 4 more years to get you through.

But you paint a picture of leased cars and credit card debt. Signs of people who have not lived within their means most probably. So your parents should have run the calculators and told you they weren’t planning to pay their EFC before you applied. In addition to their income and savings, most colleges count home equity. If they’ve owned your home for 18 years, they could have a lot of it.

College is like any other consumer product. You can’t have a Mercedes on a Honda budget. If you want the high end, you will typically have to cut your budget in other areas. Most family’s make huge sacrifices, even to send their kids to a state college.

It’s not Tufts that doesn’t care, it’s a family not willing or able to make the sacrifices.

romeboards · February 21, 2009, 2:12pm

I do not see that as living an upper class lifestyle. That 800k is not just some savings account, its a retirement fund that we can just suck money out of. The most you could even take out at a time is about 3-4k. And last time i checked, a house with 2 cars is normal for a suburban family. I am well aware of the extreme poverty inside and outside of this country, but that doesnt mean my family should have to sacrifice everything they own to get to an elite college. Also, once again, read the thread. The credit card debt is essentially gone, save for a few thousand dollars.

yeah those were educational/community service trips that I had to apply to and won scholarships for on my own merit. A few of those were paid off years ago. You people really love jumping to assumptions.

how is that feeling entitled? Because i dont feel that my family should take away from their life in order to accommodate mine?

What sacrifices would that mean?? We drive Hondas, never eat out, and our yearly vacation is to a beach about an hours drive away!!!
Our "sacrifices would have to be selling the house, turning in the cars, etc etc. I do not know what possibly could be cut back, unless you want us to stop buying food or something. Also, if my dad were to go back to work that would mean he coulnt collect his pension (he already works part-time). That would mean our income would go down

_rentof2 · February 21, 2009, 2:26pm

Romeboards, it’s totally understandable you don’t want to take money from you family that they would prefer to use on other things. The thing is, though, that that is not somehow the fault of Tufts’ financial aid department. I started reading this thread in all sympathy with your plight, but the more I read it seems there are choices being made (whatever they are) to prioritize some things over college. Nothing wrong with that! But you can’t expect a college to compensate for it with their own funds. There are no doubt huge numbers of applicants with much, much lower income, fewer assets, no fat retirement or savings accounts. It just doens’t make sense a student in your situation should take precedence over them in terms of spreading the available aid around.

I think you should talk to Tufts ASAP, though, because since it doesn’t look as though you really CAN’T afford to go, negotiating a release from the ED agreements might require a bit of a process. I mean, hopefully not, but best to get going on that. The opt-out clause is based on not being able to afford to go, but I don’t think you have an obvious case to make for that. Clearly they can’t force you go, but you may as well make sure to do this as carefully and responsibly as you can. No point in making trouble for yourself if you can avoid it.

sueinphilly · February 21, 2009, 2:33pm

Just curious why dad would retire just as kid was starting college after already having to put prior college costs on a credit card. Was retirement voluntary or forced by layoff. Is mom working?

Did you apply to schools that do give merit aid. I saw your stats on another thread and they are pretty good. You need to make sure you have other eggs in the basket in case Tufts doesn’t pan out.

cptofthehouse · February 21, 2009, 2:36pm

Whoa there, Romeboards. Don’t get hot under the collar. I am in a family that is in very similar financial straits as you are. Live in a high COLA place. My H makes a luxurious salary but is not considered wealthy by any measure in this area. We have a big house, probably a mistake to have bought that we would love to sell but the market is not allowing us to do so at a cost we can afford to let go. Oh, yes, I run the numbers all of the time, plotting and planning.

You and your parents need to do a sit down and decide what you can afford as a family. We had to do this with our son who is now a freshman at an expensive LAC. We knew that we would not get financial aid. So we focused on schools that had merit money and on low sticker price schools including a number of our state schools. He wanted this college he is now attending. He negotiated an increase in merit money-double the original $5K and also got an outside scholarship. By offering to work with the scholarship folks, he extended a one time $2500 award to a $5k award for 4 years for working with the foundation. Nice. He also worked hard this summer and made a nice sum of money. He worked a lot during Christmas break and now has a job on camps for 10 hours a week. He will be working spring break and also this summer, and during the next school year. He has borrowed Stafford money as well. In addition, he had been saving money since he was a little fellow for college, and had some funds there.

We also saved for college. Not nearly enough and the fund is down, but we do have some savings. We also will be paying out of income. We have cut back and out in a real austerity program this past year and continuing. Saved quite a bit this month on heat by keeping the thermostat low. No vacation this summer. No new clothes unless absolutely necessary. We’ve cut the food budget down and planned even cheaper but nutritious meals for the kids. I am watching the gas and mileage very carefully. I rethink each purchase. Yeah, I 've made some mistakes but am doing much better than in previous years, and have saved some money. Redid our cell phone plans, consolidated cable, internet and home phone lines. We are not eating out much at all, packing lunch, snacks, travel foods. We are really making an effort, and we still have a lot of fat there. But even if I can shave $3K off our spending this year, that is that much less we have to borrow from PLUS to make up what we need to pay our share of S’s college costs.

This is something to discuss with your parents. My kids did not know income, savings, assets, costs until college time when we shared the infor with them. THat is when we went over everything so that we could afford college.

The idea is to get a plan together that does not hurt family quality life and makes college affordable. I hurt to hear of parents working 2-3 jobs and not eating properly, skimping on medical care, living in a dangerous area, driving an unsafe car so their kids can go to a more expensive school. Priorities are not right that way. BUt most family budgets have some fat in them.

How much can your parents pay out of budget and savings for your college? How much can you earn if you start a part time job now and commit for spring break and the summer? Can you double work this summer? Can you get a job at Tufts? How much do you have saved? How much can you and your parents comfortably borrow? Can they borrow against the pension? Do they have a HELOC? Will they be getting some tax money back–seems they are just on the brink-- for college? Can you do a big garage sale and get rid of your junk and clothes? Sell some books and stuff on Ebay? My son made $600 on Ebay this year and it’s only February. We made $2K in a yard sale last spring. Any old text books to sell? Most of us are not perfect in our budgets, and can come up with some money. The problem is that schools like Tufts cost so much that coming up with $50k is very, very difficult. Split it into what you can provide, what your parents provide, borrowing, working, saving, out of savings, etc.

compaq10 · February 21, 2009, 2:41pm

Go on, romeboards, enjoy reading your counterattacks
If I’m a FA member from Tufts , I would award you scholarships Tufts did a good job in selecting you. You are wise and cool

Keilexandra · February 21, 2009, 5:34pm

romeboards: While I disagree with some of the posters in this thread, the general principle that has been repeated is correct. 150k is comfortably middle-class. I would consider it upper-middle-class, really, because my family is middle-class with a ~65k AGI (in a moderate-cost area of the NE) and we don’t have credit card debt, we don’t take vacations, we have basic cable, both cars (Hondas too) are paid off, etc. And I remember the poverty-line days, too; my music lessons are a luxury and I’m still surprised by the fact that we can now afford more than a $16 book as the sole Christmas present. --I am middle-class, and due to our frugal lifestyle, we can (barely) afford our 20k EFC.

You, obviously, cannot afford 50k/year. That’s understandable, given your lifestyle; I will not judge the merits of that lifestyle because it is a choice, one not easily reversed. So you must face reality: financial aid is not kind to upper-middle-class families like yours. And what can you do about that? Well, certainly appeal to Tufts, but also work hard to get out of that ED binding agreement so that you can accept a merit offer at another school (probably a “safety”).

Pizzagirl · February 21, 2009, 6:05pm

"The fact is that the OP asked for advice, which I gave based largely on the info he provided, making reasonable assumptions about the lifestyles typical of those who make that kind of money. I’d hazard a guess that most families making 150K do have a housekeeper, and that most who live in a suburban home have a gardener. Leased cars are expensive, two leased cars are even more expensive. Dinners out are expensive, and cutting back there is a reasonable way to save to make college doable. Many people in this income range have a boat, or rec vehicle, and this is another place to save. "

Why would you hazard such a guess that most families making $150K have a housekeeper and a gardener? $150K is nothing to sneeze at, but it’s comfortable middle to upper middle class esp in a major metro area like NY, Chicago, or LA. There are plenty of $150K earning people who worked hard (both parents working) to get a house in a good public school system (itself an investment), drive reasonable cars and drive them into the ground, take local / driving vacations not grand cruises or European tours, go out occasionally to local diners instead of Le Francais Frou Frou, get their hair cut at Supercuts, clean their own houses, mow their own lawns and generally watch their pennies. I think only someone who’s just fallen off the turnip truck thinks that in those areas, $150K puts you in Richie Rich land.

sblake7 · February 21, 2009, 6:39pm

“Why would you hazard such a guess that most families making $150K have a housekeeper and a gardener? … I think only someone who’s just fallen off the turnip truck thinks that in those areas, $150K puts you in Richie Rich land.”

Hello Pizzagirl-

If you choose to live in an expensive area, of course it will probably be expensive.

I didn’t say it put him in Rchie Rich land, but it puts his family at about 3 times the national average, and probably in the top 5% or so of family incomes. They have choices, and they’ve had choices. OP is fortunate that his family has significant assets and income, though the parent’s hard work and saving.

I make reasonable assumptions based in my experiences and observations, as we all do. And having lived for years in a community near Los Angeles where the average family income is right around 150K, those have been my experience and observations. If some of the suggestions made in response to OP’s request for advice don’t fit his particular situation, that’s fine. YMMV.

I can tell you, though, that I’ve seen many, many of my kid’s acquaintances who lived in an affluent bubble, who thought that their standard of living was the norm, and that they were firmly “middle class.” They have little experience outside the bubble, and they think that most families have two leased cars, and take international vacations, and have a housekeeper and a gardener, and live in a 2500 sq foot house. They simply don’t have the context and experience to understand how good they have it.

Nearly everyone wants to consider themselves “middle class,” it seems. Interesting phenomenon, and one that crops up frequently here on the discussion boards.

I think OP’s family can likely find a way to afford his first choice, though savings and current income. If not, he has other good options that will allow him to attend a good school with merit aid, savings, and current income. He’ll be fine.

romeboards · February 21, 2009, 7:19pm

Listen. I do not live in an affluent bubble. ive seen poverty in places of the world where tourists rarely go. I have already made serious plans (i.e. contacting officials) into joining the peace corp the second i get my bachelors degree. I do not live in some bubble. My parents did not buy me a car. I pay for everything except for food, housing etc. That includes the phone bill, car insurance, gas, clothes, and any eating out/movies, bowling etc. that I might do with friends. At any given time, I am working 2 jobs. I tutor math. I am the president of my county’s youth bureau and have visited the homeless shelters in our area and raised donations/collections for them. I have been heartstruck by some of the things I have witnessed, and have done everything in my 18 year old power to do whatever I possibly could. I take great offense when someone tells me I am living in a bubble or am living anything more than a comfortable life. I dont brag about my lifestyle or use it to look down at others. My college careers are centered around me being able to help people. I am grateful for the blessing life has bestowed upon me, and I thank whoever’s up there everyday for having the life I lead. Call it trite, cliche, whatever you want, but dont make judgments about my life until you have met me.

At the beginning of my college search, I felt that my 13 years of hard work would entitle me to an elite and prestigious university. And I’ve gotten in to some of the best colleges in the nation. I personally do not mind the sacrifice I need to make, but if I have to choose between my aging parents’ (in their late 50s-60s) lifestyle and a slightly “lessor” (thats debatable) education, then I guess my mind has been made up. With the knowledge that I have gained from this situation, I hope other perspective college students will appreciate the lives they lead and are thankful to the parents that have done so much for them and the lives they will lead.

goru · February 21, 2009, 7:25pm

OP is a 17-year-old kid who has a bunch of adults accusing him and his family of being spoiled, unappreciative, wasteful, and selfish. his father’s decision to retire has even been questioned!!?? i think he’s been the model of restraint.

_rentof2 · February 21, 2009, 7:58pm

I’m just worried about his/her ED contract. Crossing fingers that getting out of it won’t be messy.

Chedva · February 21, 2009, 8:00pm

And that’s what people are objecting to and calling a “sense of entitlement.”

I have two graduate degrees, including a professional degree earned magna cum laude. I have worked for over 20 years. I thought that 21 years of hard work in education, and 20 years of working, living within my means, buying houses we could afford, saving for college, paying off my own collge loans, delaying vacations, etc. would allow me to send my child to whichever school she wished.

But guess what? It didn’t. The savings we had are worth 1/2 what they were in July. I now work a second job. I never thought I’d have to go into retail, but I do.

No one is “entitled” to anything, no matter how hard they work.

romeboards · February 21, 2009, 8:14pm

of course, god forbid my grades and not my finances should make me feel that I should go to a top school. I guess theyre only for the “rich”, right?

sueinphilly · February 21, 2009, 8:20pm

At this point, all you can do is contact the school, explain the scenario and tell them that only one parent is working now. See what they say and if it’s not going to be doable, then move on.

Nobody here will tell you that life is fair, because it isn’t.

EDII Financial Aid Package was NOTHING

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