<p>“…I guess my mind has been made up. With the knowledge that I have gained from this situation, I hope other perspective college students will appreciate the lives they lead and are thankful to the parents that have done so much for them and the lives they will lead.”</p>
<p>That’s a good attitude that will take you a long way. You’ll likely end up at a very good school, and do well. Good luck!</p>
<p>Rome, again, what you and your family need to understand is that college is just another consumer product. If you can’t afford a Mercedes you buy the Honda. Everyone would prefer the Mercedes but not everyone gets one.</p>
<p>You are right that you should not cause your family hardship. I agree that your decision is quite easy–you go to the school your family can afford. Lot’s of kids work very hard and don’t get to go to their choice of schools. What we’re telling you is simple, this is not Tuft’s fault and frankly, for such a smart kid you really should have done your homework and known this before signing an ED contract. Tufts and “rich” bashing is inappropriate.</p>
<p>Romeboards, you’re not doing a very good job of listening and learning from what people are telling you. If you want to feel resentful, fine. It’s not useful in the long run and I bet it won’t make you happy, but you won’t be the first to indulge in those feelings. If you’d prefer to get past your surprise about the Tufts offer and expand your understanding of how families in different circumstances deal with educational costs, you can learn a lot from the stories people have been generous enough to share with you.</p>
<p>Expensive schools are definitely not just for rich people. But they are for people who can afford to pay their Expected Family Contribution, whatever that may be. Whether your EFC is zero, $20k, or $50k, you have to be able to pay it. That’s how the system works, and it truly is too bad that you and your parents didn’t know this before you applied to colleges.</p>
<p>The only exception to having to pay your EFC is if you get enough merit aid that it covers your need and then some.</p>
<p>There are colleges whose application windows are still open. If I were you, I’d find a couple of these schools that look like good fits both academically and financially. Good luck.</p>
<p>“If you can’t afford a Mercedes you buy the Honda. Everyone would prefer the Mercedes but not everyone gets one.”</p>
<p>Ummm-- I’ll take the Honda over the Mercedes. My friends with Mercedes aren’t at all happy with the frequency of repair and the build quality. My friends with Honda’s love 'em. My 7 year old Accord with 100K miles still drives like new…</p>
<p>Getting good tests scores and grades and working hard doesn’t entitle you to jack. Thousands of people who work their butts off at school for 13 years and get rejected. Don’t ever feel entitled to anything because in the real world nothing is handed to you.</p>
<p>If you aren’t willing to make a few sacrifices then don’t go to the expensive school. Trust me there are thousands of students who would do anything to be in your situation. To have JUST $20k a year for school.</p>
<p>I think EFC is painful for everyone. Whether yours is $5K, $25K or $55K, the pain is almost always there, it’s just relative.</p>
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<p>Your hard work in school got you in. But it does not “entitle” you to getting the education for free. Your parents budgeted/saved $20,000 per year for the four years. It does not entitle you to $30,000 from the University. Based on your financial data and Tuft’s guidelines for the distribution of their funds, there are students who need the aid more than you do. </p>
<p>You mentioned that your parents are late 50’s/early 60’s. These days, that is young for retirement. I am mid 50’s and my husband is early 60’s and we don’t consider ourselves “aging” nor are we thinking about retirement.</p>
<p>I think the biggest problem here is that your folks did not communicate with you about the financial particulars of your family’s situation. You assumed that there was $80 from your parents and that Tufts would make up the difference. Tufts determined that you family could contribute more. Your dad chose to retire rather than continue to both earn income and be able to pay out of current income for educational expenses. And applying ED meant that you were eliminating a college or U with significant merit aid.</p>
<p>Your arguments contain good points. But you applied ED without doing all the prep work to understand what Tufts would and would not be offering, and it could have been predicted that they would not offer you financial aid. It is unfair. But it is what it is, and the online calculators would have told you this back in the fall. </p>
<p>Call the financial aid office Monday. They might reconsider, you might find that the retirement funds were allocated inappropriately. Keep fighting for it. But don’t be so stubborn that you won’t admit what got you into this predicament. </p>
<p>And with the economy the way it is, stop whining about only $150,000 of yearly family income.</p>
<p>Rome, as a parent I really appreciate your priorities. There are kids who feel entitled to an education regardless of the cost to their parents. Cost can be measured in stress, health, comfort, security as well as money. You do not want that sacrificed.</p>
<p>Your grades and test scores do mean a lot. They just do not translate to a financial aid package or merit package from Tufts or a number of other schools. There are plenty of schools out there who would have merit money for you. My son got merit money that ranged from a big fat zero, to full cost+, with a variety in between. So did many of his friends. Some chose the schools that did not offer them any money because they felt it was worth the cost and their parents were able and willing to pay it. Or they took out loans. Some went for a full ride at schools, even when they preferred another school, because they did not want to put their family out that much money and they did not want to take loan for that large of an amount. </p>
<p>Unfair. Yes, it is unfair that we are born to the families we are. THe care or abuse our parents give us have a huge impact on our lives. College is just another extension of the education system which is heavily dependent on parents. You go to the nursery, elementary, middle and high school that your parents permit you to attend and are willing to pay either by address or private tuition. College offers more choices and freedom, but again, your parents’ ability and willingness to pay can impact your choices. But the better your grades and test scores, the more choices you have. You have a better chance than most kids of getting merit money. You have an opportunity to go to Tufts if you and your family are willing to borrow or skimp for it. Those are not choices everyone has.</p>
<p>I have been following the thread Romeboards posted and choose now to reply. I find some responses quite interesting-- ranging from ignorant to insightful. I have learned much from some, things I wish I knew/understood 6 months ago. Regardless, hindsight is always 20/20.</p>
<p>For the record, yes, last year our income was 150K+. ( Prior years income was less than 100K This included income from work as well as the “draw” from my husband"s pension. He retired nearly 2 years ago when his pension was worth 25% more. He had the same job for 40 years, and at 62, a one time incentive was offered for $42K–after taxes about $34K (apparently not enough tax was taken out because we got hit with a $5k tax bill at the end of the year. Because our expenses were not going to change, a decision was made to draw enough from the pension to meet monthly bills (utilities, mortgage, fuel, transport, insurance, etc) as well as accumulated credit card debt. A word about credit card debt- Until 5 years ago, I had very little income-very part time work mostly while I was finishing a Grad degree. Because life situations don’t wait for when you can afford them, credit cards were used to pay for -Grad school, large ticket situations- So-called vacations were attending out-of-state family events-weddings, etc. Our International travel was work for my husband-he escorted groups on study-learn programs which included lectures, etc. Compensation was two free trips-sometimes with me, sometimes with my son. Other travel was either paid through scholarship or community service. We made the most of what we had to work with- some of the assumptions about our lifestyle, such as boats, ski vacations, RVs are at the very least laughable and at most presumptuous and judgmental. I suppose in some parts of the country these would have been true but not where we live-moving to a cheaper part of the country is not an option at this time-Even selling our house or borrowing against equity is not an option for all the reasons one can read about in the newspaper (declining sales, values). We did mange to accumulate through a tax deferred annuity, about 100K for our son’s college–that’s what it was worth when my husband retired. Almost immediately, the market started to drop. Now it’s worth about $80K. Regardless, we felt confident that he would be able to get into the school of his choice if he had the grades, scores, etc. When he decided on an elite NE school we let him know that we could go as high as 25K per year, that the rest would have to be through scholarship , loans, etc. However in no way did I want to discourage him from at least trying, as long as he knew the “deal”. </p>
<p>As far as applying for financial aid, every handbook says that one should not be scared off by the price tag-there is always scholarship, aid, loans- At the time I was mentally calculating my income as an elementary school teacher and my husband’s part time teaching as our income-less than 100K! I did not know that what we drew from my husband’s pension who be looked upon as income for Financial Aid purposes. This was my error- you don’t know what you don’t know, sometimes. We were ecstatic when our son was excepted ED–his first choice. A week later we find out that NO aid would be given. My interpretation was that an assessment was made that we could afford 50K per year. WOW! </p>
<p>A few final thoughts-20 years ago I was a single mom with 3 little ones-going to college full time so that I could make a better life for our collective futures. My final year, I was on welfare and food stamps so that I could finish my degree. For those of you out there with all the advice about scrimping and saving-save it-I could write the book- to this day the mentality still kicks in- buy things on sale, buy the generic brand, bring lunch to work, do it yourself (I have painted the inside of my house several times over the years, refusing to spend the money for someone else to do what I could do-) My gardener is my husband- he has built value to our home through his labor outside. Because I work full time for the last couple of years I pay someone twice a month to “clean” Monthly cost- $130. I make no apologies- She needs the money to send her own daughters to school. I did the same 20 years ago-</p>
<p>This entire episode has been a learning experience for my family. I hope that someone else will learn something that will help them make better informed choices that we did. My son worked hard and his “reward” was the ED to the top school of his choice-My heart breaks to see him disappointed, but my head reminds me that he will absolutely land on his feet and excel no matter where he goes-yes he applied to 7 schools altogether- the stretch and the safety and the State U. If he got into the elite school I feel confident he will get into the others–
We are appealing the FA decision at elite school (which gives no merit-) but he has realized that he will do well no matter where he winds up because he is a talented, focused worker- I thank everyone in this thread for there input- :)</p>
<p>Thanks for posting Jamoka and good luck to your son! Of course he will do well wherever he ends up!</p>
<p>Like Rome’s mother, I have heard over and over again, not to worry about costs in selecting the schools that your child applies to. This website has been very insightful and helpful. It is really a shame that the myth – the money is there and it is no strings money – is out there among so many people.</p>
<p>My child isn’t interested in any $$$$ private schools, but his siblings may very well be.</p>
<p>I think that’s a good point about how often you hear that advice to not assume privates will be more expensive because the aid they can offer is so generous and available. It is valuable for people to not simply assume that because sometimes privates <em>can</em> be less expensive and for a pretty wide range of family incomes, but likewise, they should understand that you just don’t know how much it will cost you until you get an offer of aid (or not) back from the specific college. The higher your income, the less likely there will be need-based aid. Merit aid is a whole different kettle of fish, and while few of the very top ranked schools give merit aid, you don’t have to go too far down any ranking list to find schools that do. Understanding the difference in types of aid before applying ED is really important.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s true that you just don’t know. The truth is just the opposite, if you do the proper homework, run calculators and consult the actual schools your child is interested in, you can very much know.</p>
<p>Jamoka, yes, EFC can be a big splash of cold reality. I hope there are some schools on your S’s list that offer merit $$ or where you can comfortably meet COA. Yes, sometimes private schools offer a better FA package than state schools, but it’s not something most of us can count on, esp. as endowments are shrinking and budgets are getting cut to the bone.</p>
<p>There is also nothing wrong with asking your S to help with the cost of college through summer work, a part time job during the school year, and with taking out Stafford loans. That can add up to $10k right there. We were not shy about telling our kids that they could go wherever they wanted, but that they would need to contribute. That conversation started in middle school. The one condition we put on S1’s college search was no ED applications. We are close to full pay (but in that range where it is mighty, mighty painful) and felt we had to see how the numbers would look before committing. We also have significant ongoing medical bills and did not know how that would be factored in. As it turns out, PROFILE schools gave us a lower EFC than our FAFSA EFC. We also have a junior in HS now, so will be paying for two in another year and a half. Yikes!</p>
<p>Your S is a bright young man – I’m sure he can figure out a way to attain his goals, wherever he attends college. </p>
<p>As I suggested previously, be sure to check your FAFSA/Profile to be sure that pension assets are not included as regular savings. You may also want to let Tufts know that the severance payment was a one-time thing. </p>
<p>– from a house-painting, yard-working, trying-to-climb-the-ladder mom in a high COL area</p>
<p>I hope Tufts is responsive to your family’s needs.</p>
<p>So, if the OP gets married, say, in the next month or two, he is an independent student?</p>
<p>Then why doesn’t he marry someone and establish himself as an independent student?</p>
<p>^^^ No. Student must be married at time FAFSA is filed. Many elites will expect parent info, anyway, if student has no income to support self & wife - kid might get government need based aid, but school may decline to give own aid. Also, most elites stipulate that those who apply as dependent will remain so even if they get married during school (for purposes of institutional aid).</p>
<p>OP, my D was accepted to Tufts. We looked at the financial aid award letter and knew immediately that she wouldn’t be going. Such is life. Did she want to go? Yes. Did she work hard all her life to get accepted to a school like Tufts? Yes. Are we willing to sacrifice to send her to college? Yes. However, we simply did not feel the cost was worth it compared to her other options. Life is full of hard choices and opportunity costs for the choices we make. </p>
<p>As for colleges stating that cost shouldn’t be a barrier to applying, I think that’s true. The caveat is … families need to understand that they might not find the financial aid package to be to their liking. So the choice will be made when the family sees what is offered. </p>
<p>Rome, I think you are missing the point — you say you have seen “poverty.” Do you understand the HUGE spectrum of income between what your parents make and “poverty?” It isn’t just rich, middle class, and poor. I am a well educated, intelligent, 50 year old woman who makes so little it’s laughable. I have a very demanding job that requires knowledge that <em>should</em> result in a higher salary. I’m not complaining. I’m just pointing this out because if I had to support a family on my pay, I’d be in trouble - and I make more than minimum wage. Two wage earners at my salary would make less than half what your parents make. We would hardly be poor - but we would be required to make a financial sacrifice in proportion to that your parents are being expected to make. That’s how the system works.</p>
<p>Even Cornell admits it that the new FA policy favors the “poor” students and it is not quite fair for mid class families. Why is it fair for some to graduate with no out of pocket expenses, while others graduate with 100K + debt attending the same school?? They would be making the same amount of money out of college. So the middle class kid and his/her family will have to pay for 20+ years student loans and effectively transform to “poor” family in order to afford the same college. Isn’t this a “redistribution of wealth”? I know of families which consider giving up their high paying jobs, selling their houses and moving to an apartments in order to send their kids to college (qualify for free tuition). Is this how it should be? If you look at Europe (UK for instance) all colleges cost about 3K per year including Oxford and Cambridge, and all pay the same fee regardless of income. Acceptance is based solely on merit.</p>
<p>From every FA presentation I’ve ever attended:</p>
<p>“you are going to cry when you see your EFC.” </p>
<p>Yes there are scholarships and aid available, but not as much as you would like or hope. EVER</p>
<p>imgdoc, everyone is evaluated using the same formula. If a family is determined to have the resources to be able to pay, then they are expected to do so if they want to attend the school. To the extent that they have a determined need, the family is offered aid to fill that need (at schools like Cornell) - even solidly middle class folks are offered grants at these schools. Bottom line is, if you can’t pay the EFC you have to borrow to do it. If your EFC is 0 - well, you don’t have to borrow to pay that, do you? But I know I wouldn’t want to live the life of the person with the 0 EFC. They might “win” in one sense, but that’s a win I’m glad I can’t claim.</p>