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Since no system is perfect, no system should be absolute. Which is why I think our messy, complicated system is better than something written in stone. There are at least choices now for most kids (whether they love them or not). Having an absolutely no merit aid system would open the door to all sorts of unintended consequences, no matter how noble your intentions.</p>
<p>50% of college freshmen do not finish any kind of 4 year degree, let alone the numbers that apply to non-party diplomas. Ease <em>their</em> burden ?!?</p>
<p>Bah. Send them to vocational school, and give generous money to those who prove they deserve the prize.</p>
<p>“I can’t speak for vossron, but I’m personally looking to extend opportunities for poor students while also expanding options for middle class students.”</p>
<p>Money is limited, and your intent is to take money from the group you arbitrarily define as “not_you”, and give the money to the group you include yourself in. The middle-class whine does not say "give the merit money to the poor (aka income less than what I have); it says “give the money to <em>my</em> class.”</p>
<p>Most people do not include my income in their definition of “middle-class”, so as a representative of the other_group I’ll say that I am much more open to suggestions how to optimize my taxation, and not just hear the whine of hypocritical beggars. For now, the best option on the table is to give the money to those students who will give back the most. AKA, make decisions based on merit.</p>
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Maybe I can speak for him (don’t you love it when others like Eric ignorantly speak for you?). </p>
<p>D1 paid full list; D2 received merit money she did not need, and I’d like the system to be changed to prevent that. (I also don’t voluntarily send extra money to the IRS. 
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<p>Did you refuse the merit money ? ^^</p>
<p>Did your D2 refuse the merit money offered to her on her financial aid award letter vossron?</p>
<p>I guess what I take (small) exception to is that your posts appear to show that you believe you know best with regard to the entire system. If your daughter didn’t need the money, great. Refuse it. Don’t advocate changing an entire, complicated system based on arbitrary designations and warm fuzzies.</p>
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<p>Well I’m certainly not in the middle class, if that’s what you mean. I think that colleges should use more of their endowments if they have them, lower the sticker price so that more people are full pay in the first place (and look for cost cutting measures that do not edge into quality of education), offer more low-cost public and private schools, etc. That works for EVERYONE, not just low income students.</p>
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<p>I disagree. It’s true that no system is perfect. But I don’t think our current system is better. That said, it’s highlyunlikely any other system is going to be implemented. The current system hits low-income students the hardest, then middle-income students. I realize that’s the way of life, but ideally we’d mitigate the pain at each level.</p>
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<p>So you mean, mostly students from your group.</p>
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EVERYTHING hits low income students the hardest. I don’t think it’s necessarily up to private colleges to fix that unless it’s in their interests to do so. Now, we can discuss all sorts of ways to help poor kids before they get to the point of choosing a college. I have many ideas.</p>
<p>We did not refuse; that’s what I meant about not sending extra money to the IRS. We’re sufficiently self-centered that we liked not having to use even more home equity. Refusing it doesn’t do anything toward changing the system.</p>
<p>We all have our opinions about how systems should work; that’s why we post here!</p>
<p>I think our collective college students would be better off if those who don’t need financial help don’t get it, with that money going instead to those who need it. Most of this former merit money would continue going to the middle class, but the portion now going to those who don’t need it would be directed to where it would do more good.</p>
<p>I don’t see why there is such vehement opposition to this position, but it fits with sentiment in this country that nothing should be done to interfere with the rich getting richer.</p>
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<p>You could also accept the money, and then make a matching targeted donation towards a need-based financial aid fund. Then tell the school what you did, and why. You get some benefit (write off the donation) and you also get a small bully pulpit. </p>
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<p>This is why I’d really like to see those enrollment models. I have no idea if more money is made available to poor/middle class students by bringing in more near-full-pay well-off students, or if pushing all merit aid to the need-based pot would be the better option. I’d expect this to vary between schools.</p>
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<p>I addressed that in the next part of that paragraph:</p>
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<p>On occasion I feel the same way. I do recognize that fifty grand is a lot even for a family making $200,000 yearly - especially with multiple students! But all I want is some kind of acnowledgement that a) no one DESERVES anything and b) being in the top 3% of income earners certainly doesn’t warrant a hand out.</p>
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You got yours and to heck with everyone else, right? Because you’re (a) entitled and (b) holier than thou?</p>
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Nothing to do with that. It’s about speaking for someone, everyone else, without consideration to the fact that your perspective isn’t the only valid one. I have a huge objection to changing an entire system to something absolute that would bring significant unintended consequences.</p>
<p>Borrowing from your house to pay for your kid’s college is a time-honored insitution. Yet, for lots of people who could “afford” this option a few years ago, this option may have gone out the window. Now a family may have less to work with, or on paper look better off financially than they really are - especially if they are small business owners. </p>
<p>With houses devalued and mortgages underwater (a whole other issue for another thread), paying for college is an even more complicated situation these days. Taking merit money which your daughter won is appropriate. Perhaps she will want to go on to graduate school, law school, medical school. Perhaps she will take a job after graduation in which she won’t get the kind of renumeration that would even pay for the student loans that she would have had to take out, without that merit aid.</p>
<p>And your circumstances may change. Today you may be doing well. Tomorrow, you or your husband might lose a job. That safety net falls out from under you, pretty fast. Especially when it is built on a house of cards - or adjustable rate mortgages, interest only mortgages, etc.</p>
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Exactly right. No one deserves anything, and poor people are as likely (and possibly more likely) to be less worthy of a helping hand because of undesirable behavior.</p>
<p>Where does the fiscal health of the college come into play? If the $5000 merit money gains them a net $25000 for 20 students and increases the pot of money available in that particular university for various things, wasn’t that $5000 well spent and doesn’t that benefit everyone, rich or poor? Are you so set on the theoretical leveling of the playing field that you would advocate a system that would cause actual harm to those poorer students just to make what you think is the better way? Cutting off one’s nose to spite his face?</p>
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My financial security is based on the fact that my husband has a very strong back. He could fall off the garbage truck tomorrow and we’d be out of luck.</p>
<p>While I admit I’m indifferent to merit money, I think folks need to recognize that it’s not as simple as just taking that pot of cash and putting it all into the need-basket. It’s just not a static analysis. For example, by chasing test scores with merit money (eg, NMSF’s), colleges might be able to move their overall scores up a notch of two. That might result in more alumni giving, more favorable bond ratings, more attractiveness to top researchers who bring their own $$ support, etc.</p>
<p>“So you mean, mostly students from your group”</p>
<p>Yes, and no. My daughter did not apply to top 20 colleges, because we did not think she would be a strong merit candidate, although admission was likely. Yes in that she will matriculate to a school that offered her a nice merit package.</p>
<p>In a capitalist sense, she (we) picked a school that valued her enough to offer college at a price we were willing to pay.</p>
<p>That is to answer to your question, but I consider it irrelevant. My opinions are based on arguments of society benefit, not personal benefit. And therein lies my anger with the ‘middle-class’ cloaking desire for charity and wealth redistribution as good for the country, when the actual base motivation is simply personally looking for more of the pie without having to work or save.</p>
<p>I find it very ironic that the ‘middle-class’ has adopted the ‘give-me-because-I-deserve-it’ mentality that the ‘poor’ class is labeled with and derided for.</p>
<p>“We all have our opinions about how systems should work; that’s why we post here!”
Yes, but yours are hypocritical, and one reason they are not taken seriously.</p>
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I can’t seem to learn to not respond to personal attacks; it just drags us further away from the policy discussion.
As are mine. I think society would be better off if those who don’t need help paying for college didn’t receive it. College dollars are scarce, and we’re better off (I think) if they go to the poor and middle class. My being hypocritical is irrelevant. ;)</p>
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And you, right?</p>