Edward Fiske Reveals His "Budget Ivy League" List

<p>First of all, people who have only been looking at private schools maybe surprised to find that their own state schools are actually quite good. And as discussed here earlier, the student body profiles of state schools has been improving since the economic collapse.</p>

<p>And so-called flagship state universities are not the only option. There are state universities and colleges which are medium sized and small sized too.</p>

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<p>Something missing in the entire discussion so far is merit scholarships, including from private schools. These are offered without knowledge of parents income. A school like Case Western offers students half, three-quarters, and even full tuition scholarships largely based on SAT scores and grades. No FAFSA form needed. This can provide a top 35 private school education, with a high quality, academically-focused, small student body (unlike the massive state universities), at a cost equal to or even less than your own state university.</p>

<p>Congratulations on MiamiU; it’s a beautiful campus.</p>

<p>More “rankings” that just illustrate the larger point: you can get an excellent education, at a lower cost than “elite privates,” at state schools. It’s all about the kind of education an individual student chooses to obtain at that school. </p>

<p>Let me take on a few myths bandied about in this thread and on CC in general (it seems like you have to post this every few months or people just don’t get it): </p>

<p>At UGA, I never had a TA (which is amusing, since I start TAing next week and was the only one in my graduate cohort never to have experienced it before). I had three classes larger than 45 students (60, 60 and 80). Plenty of Honors classes in the single digits. I know several people finishing up the requirements for undergrad in 2 years (thanks to generous AP credits) and spending 2 more years getting Master’s degrees. </p>

<p>I’m at a grad program with people who paid the $$ for MIT, Harvard, Rochester, etc… and we’re now in the exact same boat. I know a laundry list of people who can say the exact same thing in a huge variety of fields. I know that jym626 [linked to my previous thread](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/660178-results-choosing-full-ride-state-school-scholarship.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/660178-results-choosing-full-ride-state-school-scholarship.html&lt;/a&gt;), but here’s an update from last year’s Foundation Fellowship class: </p>

<p>Stanford PhD
Stanford PhD
Ohio State PhD
UWashington PhD (NSF Fellowship)
Stanford Law
Yale Law
UNC MD/MpH
Emory Med
Teach for America
Barclays I-Banking
McKinsey Consulting
Sports Broadcasting w/AAA team
Street Ministry
Various people in one-year positions around the world </p>

<p>And plenty of Honors program students at the same kinds of places, from Harvard Med to Teach for America to the intelligence agencies. I can also offer up many examples from other state schools, if some people really need convincing.</p>

<p>Is this the “average” outcome for a student at a state school? No, because I’ll repeat this again: there is no “average” student. It’s all about the individual student and what he/she wants out of a college education. There are plenty of resources at almost every school out there, so why not choose the most affordable option? The Fiske list seems kind of arbitrary, but if it serves the purpose of getting a few of the excellent state schools around the country on the radars of prospective students, then it’s done its job.</p>

<p>Hey Parent2Noles, you’re late to the party buddy. But of course I’m nevertheless glad to see you back on CC. I can’t imagine a thread about FSU with your “sis-boom-bah” for the Noles.</p>

<p>^ But it LL P2N beat you to this thread, LakeWashington :D</p>

<p>Quite true that other awesome schools like Case offer fabulous scholarships. If Case weren’t such a long drive away, it would have certainly been on the list. A great school for a very analytical student. And their scholarship programs for merit are very strong.</p>

<p>Who put the limit on the distance from home? You or your s? You have said that he is an accelerated student, but there are many younger than average freshmen who do just fine more than a few hours away from home.</p>

<p>Debrockman, it sounds like you were a) unwilling to send kid more than a couple hours away and b) unable to pay elite school prices. So you found a solution that worked. If you and S are happy, then what do you care if other families have different criteria? Maybe MOWC can afford more than you. Guess what, Bill Gates can afford more than her. Shouldn’t you be happy that others are happy with their choices too. You sound resentful of those who can afford elite colleges full pay. Well, I can’t afford a private jet but that doesn’t entitle me to be resentful of those who can. There is a concept called “more power to them” wherein you are delighted for people who are able to do more than you can.</p>

<p>I don’t know if Fiske is a Miami of Ohio alumnus or what, but he has historically put that school on a pedestal that almost nobody else sees it.</p>

<p>What’s funny is that Miami of Ohio is a very, very expensive state school (12K+ in state; 27K OOS) and costs a lot more than Ohio’s higher ranked, more selective and AAU member flagship university of which he never has anything good to say. How it could end up on anyone’s “budget” list is beyond me.</p>

<p>There’s clearly some kind of agenda in his hyping of Miami of Ohio.</p>

<p>Informative, why do you say the things you do? You are the antithesis of informed. Iowa has many good programs, particularly in creative writing. You sound like a high school senior or college freshman who has never traveled anywhere and has no knowledge of anything outside your own little bubble.</p>

<p>I think UW deserves this reputation. Any university with a high world ranking reputation has something going for it. </p>

<p>It hits # 23 in the world here [Top</a> 200 - The Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2010-2011](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html]Top”>World University Rankings 2010-11 | Times Higher Education (THE))</p>

<p>And 16th in the world here: [ARWU</a> 2010](<a href=“http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp]ARWU”>http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp)</p>

<p>This might not matter to all students, of course. But to those who plan to work outside the US, or who plan to go to graduate school and want to come from a research powerhouse with letters from highly regarded scientists, it’s a great strategy.</p>

<p>USNWR numbers mean nothing to anyone once you leave highschool.</p>

<p>lol @ people dissing college of new jersey who clearly have no idea what they’re talking about (literally). </p>

<p>Anyway, why should I pay $50,000 a year for undergrad? I can go to TCNJ, whose bio program is extremely good (and extremely competitive, 11% acceptance rate to bio major) and get a superb education for half that price (not including all the scholarships I’ll get). TCNJ has an 85% acceptance rate to Medical Schools and almost all brand new facilities. 0 TAs, average class size of 24 (no class is larger than 48), all state of the art research equipment available to undergrads, BEAUTIFUL campus… its a dream for me. Oh… and everything is for undergrads. </p>

<p>I’ve visited all the top schools. Hated them all except Brown, so TCNJ’s affordability and quality make it a no-brainer for me.</p>

<p>I guess I’m just an inferior person for believing that I can get a quality education instate.</p>

<p>If med school is the goal, it absolutely makes sense to save the money. My son in law turned down Duke for Loyola-New Orleans (full scholarship) to save the money for medical school. He then went to an in-state medical school and is now a doc at a top residency program. I think pre-med and engineering are somewhat different than “undecideds” or liberal arts.</p>

<p>LW, Can we now include Edward Fiske in the FSU rah-rah club?</p>

<p>I’m OK with it. :D</p>

<p>OMG P2N!! We need to cool it with the abbreviations! I saw your post to Lake Washington (LW) and thought you were posting to limbwalker!! :eek:</p>

<p>are these schools really “ivies”?</p>

<p>mmm…not anymore. Go read the wiki page; that explains it all.</p>

<p>Are you really a new poster who just joined cc today??</p>

<p>Wait, jym - I’ve abbreviated Lake Washington as LW for “decades”. We go “back”. ;)</p>

<p>Whew, P2N. Glad you are old buds !</p>

<p>The Miami of Ohio vs. Ivy debate is an interesting one. The loudest voices seem to be coming from those trying to “justify” their own choices. Both types of schools have a lot to offer. Both are good choices. The schools, and those who have chosen them, deserve respect.</p>

<p>Full disclosure: I happen to know students and professors at Miami. Family members have attended well-known elite schools, as well as Miami. Some attended both.</p>

<p>Miami’s campus is beautiful, but the academics are nothing to sneeze at. Fiske is not the only publication that noticed Miami. The following are bits and pieces copied from Miami’s website as well as other discussions on CC: </p>

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<li>Up from last year’s ranking of #8, Miami was recently ranked #2 by U.S. News and World Report in the Best Colleges: Undergraduate Teaching at National Universities. Miami tied with Princeton University and is one spot behind Dartmouth.

<ul>
<li>Kiplinger has named Miami as one of the “100 Best Values in Public Colleges” since the ranking began in 1998.</li>
<li>Miami ranks as the top public university in Ohio for a quality education based on student satisfaction, affordability, and success (Center for College Affordability & Productivity/Forbes).</li>
<li>Twice as many employers recruit at Miami than at similar sized schools, and they conduct four times as many interviews on campus.</li>
<li>Graduation rates are high, especially for a state school. Miami’s graduation rate of 81 percent is one of the 10 best for publics in the nation and the best for publics in Ohio. MU graduates about 68% in four years and 80+% after 6 years. This puts MU in top 5 of the Large State Schools in the US. </li>
<li>Miami’s 3.7 years to graduation average places it in the bottom half of Ohio schools in cost-per-degree.</li>
<li>Miami graduates gain admittance into graduate, law, and medical schools at a much higher rate than average. For medical school, 64 percent of qualified Miami applicants were admitted, versus 47 percent nationally. That number rises to 90 percent for those with a 3.4 g.p.a. Miami seniors applying to law schools for the 2009–2010 school year were accepted at a rate of 92 percent, compared to a national average of 77 percent. </li>
</ul></li>
<li>Payscale.com ranked Miami eighth out of 150 Midwestern universities for best earning potential after graduation.

<ul>
<li>In Business Week magazine’s latest ranking of undergraduate business programs, Miami’s Farmer School of Business appears among the nation’s top five percent, ranking sixth among public universities and colleges. (2010)
*The architecture department was recognized by Architect Magazine in their ‘Arch Ed 2009: A new guide to inform (and demystify) the process of choosing an architecture school’ as one of the Schools that Excel in Distinctive Specialties. Of the 400 to 500 undergraduate applicants the department receives, only 75 are accepted.</li>
<li>Miami’s Interior Design program is ranked ninth in the nation, according to the 2009 edition of “America’s Best Architecture & Design Schools” published by Design Intelligence magazine. </li>
<li>Survey results released by Entrepreneur magazine and The Princeton Review show the Miami University Institute for Entrepreneurship ranks 20th among the nation’s undergraduate entrepreneurship programs. (2010)</li>
<li>Miami’s undergraduate and master’s degree programs in accountancy were ranked 17th and 21st in the nation, respectively, by Public Accounting Report. (2009)</li>
<li>Miami is among a select group of universities in the nation that have produced a Rhodes Scholar, a Truman Scholar, and a Goldwater Scholar in the same academic year. Other schools in this select group are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, Stanford, Syracuse, and the University of Washington.</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>I think Miami deserves the accolades they receive. </p>

<p>Frankly, I’m tired at the impression that Miami is a party school filled with snobby, conservative, “preppy” students. I think part of the image is a self-perpetuating stereotype, which is only true if you believe it to be. Or it is sometimes based on a very small select sample (of one or two students you happen to know). It is a large campus. There is something for everyone. When visiting campus, it reminded me much more of a smaller liberal arts college than a public university, both by the student body, the friendly atmosphere, and the campus environment. Odd how many elite private schools don’t have the same reputation, yet I would guess they have even higher stats regarding financial backgrounds, low diversity, etc. Part of the reputation may be because Miami is a state school, that functions more like a private school.</p>

<p>State schools have some brilliant students. Ivy’s have some not-so-brilliant legacies.
BOTH ARE GOOD CHOICES.</p>