<p>So debrockman, you’re saying that Miami of Ohio is a good place for suburban white kids with “solid” test scores who aren’t “Asian” enough to get into a good university.</p>
<p>Couldn’t agree with you more.</p>
<p>^ Historically, Miami also attracted such kids from the Northeast.</p>
<p>See my post (#74) in this thread regarding this:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/697411-public-ivy-leagues-5.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/697411-public-ivy-leagues-5.html</a></p>
<p>and my post (#7) in this thread:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/963768-what-public-ivies.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/963768-what-public-ivies.html</a></p>
<p>Ivies/Michigan/Northwestern/Notre Dame, etc., all cost in excess of 50K for affluent white kids.</p>
<p>Last year, the highest GPA female in the class went to Miami. She’s in the Honor’s program and is a cheerleader. She loves it. She’ll apply to law school and obviously, she’ll get in. I’m sure she could have gone about anywhere…but she comes from a close-knit family of 4 kids…affluent, but not super rich. The rest of the kids in the family are also in school at the same time. One is at Butler playing football. One is at Purdue playing baseball. One graduated a couple of years ago from IU. All amazing kids, but again…too affluent to qualify for money at an Ivy…not to mention…very family oriented and wanting to stay close to home and eachother. You can hate on the way suburban midwesterners think all you want. But our choices are perfectly rational.</p>
<p>Regarding the expense of Miami…
Due to declining state funding, former Miami President, James Garland raised in-state tuition to levels near the out-of-state cost but then proposed to discount the cost via financial aid. This is detailed in his book, “Saving Alma Mater: A Rescue Plan for America’s Public Universities.”
[Amazon.com:</a> Customer Reviews: Saving Alma Mater: A Rescue Plan for America’s Public Universities](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Alma-Mater-Americas-Universities/product-reviews/0226283860/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Alma-Mater-Americas-Universities/product-reviews/0226283860/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)</p>
<p>Wow Zapfino. That is interesting. Kind of like the bind U of Michigan is up against. They are considering becoming private. But again, if you have a kid who doesn’t want to go to a school of 40k students…Miami is a good state school option. And if you can earn Honors placement, it is better than just good. I love the Big 10. I’m a Big 10 grad, myself. I look at Chicago a little differently than the rest of the midwest. As the midwests only “real” Big City, it acts a lot more like the Big Cities on the coasts. There is a lot of REALLY big money there and the smart kids from REALLY big money still go to the big name schools. Indy functions much differently corporately, politically, socially, economically than Chicago. I’m not knocking Chicago. I love Chicago. I go there a lot. But culturally, Chicago is “Big City”. Most of the midwest is “not so much”. You can be a partner and do really well in an Indy law firm (and have a much lower cost of living) as an IU grad. If you look at our “big” firms (Ice Miller/B&T) you find some elite school folks, but many many top state school grads. As I said…people have significant regional differences. My kids want to stay in Indiana…probably Hamilton County…and in our neck of the woods, Miami is a very well regarded school. And at a 10K discount…it is also very affordable. And if they do well in Honors programming, they can most likely go to a perfectly acceptable grad school and have a very successful career…for a real bargain.</p>
<p>I think that whole tuition plan ended up as being something as of a gimmick and failure. As I understand it, everyone pays out of state tuition, but in-state students are then given an automatic scholarship for $X.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, there still is an in-state and an oos tuition level. That in-state level is still very high: $12,200 in-state/$27K oos.</p>
<p>[Miami</a> University: Office of the Bursar](<a href=“Page Not Found on the Users, Units, or Orgs Server | Miami University”>Page Not Found on the Users, Units, or Orgs Server | Miami University)</p>
<p>But I do need to say this…Miami costs 22,400 in state…37,200 OOS. They give an automation 10K for strong OOS students which pulls in a lot of OOS folks and raises the academic bar. IU does this as well. Lots of state schools do. I don’t consider 22 and 37 all that close, personally.</p>
<p>And 22 is pretty normal for an in state kid. IU is 19, Purdue is 22. I think if you look around at full price ticker at State U, that’s pretty normal. I’m not saying it isn’t a lot. Why do you think so many kids are doing CC for the first two years. But it is pretty “normal”.</p>
<p>Just to put Miami of Ohio’s status as a “budget” college into perspective, it’s current tuition levels as compared to the surrounding Big Ten publics (using in-state/in-state for Ohio State and in-state/out of state for IU, Illinois and Michigan State) are as follows:</p>
<p>Ohio State ($9420 vs $12,200) +29.5%
Indiana ($8024 vs $$27,00) +236%
Illinois ($10,386 vs $27,000) +160%
Michigan State ($11,722 vs $27,000) +130%</p>
<p>Keep in mind that all of those Big Ten schools have much larger scholarship endowments than does Miami of Ohio when it comes time to start handing out merit aid. All are also higher ranked and more selective.</p>
<p>I just don’t see how it can be considered as this national budget when it can’t even compete with the main publics in its own and surrounding states.</p>
<p>Lenny, You are comparing Indiana’s in state, no room and board rate against on campus OOS at Miami. Who taught you statistics? IU is a great school. My son is applying there. But it is very large. IU does a great job of creating learning communities and the Kelley SOB has a great community. It is a good option, no doubt. I went there. Loved it. But Miami is much much much smaller, and it is virtually all undergrad. It’s just a very different environment, and it appeals to my son. What I must pay to get that same environment in another top 20 B-School…Oh, wait. There isn’t another top 20 B-School that is almost all undergrads.</p>
<p>What is a financial bargain and what is not depends on your grades and your family income. For families in our income bracket, Miami is a good medium sized school at a very good price. And their B-School is well-thought of.</p>
<p>Ummm. no I’m not. I’m comparing in-state TUITION ONLY for Indiana against out of state TUITION ONLY for Miami of Ohio, which is what I’ve also done for MSU and U of I. This would be an accurate comparison for an Indiana/Illinois/Michigan resident considering Miami over their in-state Big Ten school. For Ohio State, I used in-state for both schools as this would be the case for an Ohio resident. None of the schools number includes residential costs.</p>
<p>[Tuition</a> & Fee Rates: Office of the Bursar: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“http://www.indiana.edu/~blbursar/fee_schedule.php]Tuition”>http://www.indiana.edu/~blbursar/fee_schedule.php)</p>
<p>[Miami</a> University: Office of the Bursar](<a href=“Page Not Found on the Users, Units, or Orgs Server | Miami University”>Page Not Found on the Users, Units, or Orgs Server | Miami University)</p>
<p>In state at IU is not 8,000.</p>
<p>No, it’s $8,124. Click the link! Perhaps you’ve discovered some vast IU conspiracy to put false tuition information on their website. Let’s get the boys in the crime lab looking into this one.</p>
<p>Tuition, room and board at IU for my son
Total for the academic year $16,298–$18,901
Kelley is at the high end.
I won’t make any comment about reading skills.</p>
<p>Now we are trying to find a top 20 B School with a good volleyball program.<br>
It may put BYU and DePaul back on the list.
IU does have a strong club program, but no school team.
Oh, and for the record, my son has been contacted directly and personally by Stanford and Washington U. When you score an 800 math SAT and a 5 on B/C Calc, it draws attention, whether MomofWildChild understands this or not.
Unfortunately, recruitment does not translate into scholarships when your dad is a doctor and you have no big hooks.</p>
<p>Jesus, I plainly stated that I was comparing TUITION ONLY! TUITION ONLY for both schools. IU’s website lists their in-state TUITION ONLY at $8124/year. Miami’s website clearly lists their in-state TUITION ONLY at 12,200 and out of state TUITION ONLY at $27,000.</p>
<p>If you want to use the higher total of TUITION, ROOM AND BOARD for IU (or the other Big Ten schools), then you need to do the same for Miami of Ohio to make an even comparison. Perhaps Miami of Ohio’s room and board is such a great bargain that it negates their much higher TUITION. I’ll leave that to you to find out, since I don’t possess the necessary reading skills.</p>
<p>I will thank you for so ably demonstrating to any potential parents or students reading this thread the almost Taliban like fanaticism of the Miami of Ohio mindset–complete with personal insults and snide comments about “reading skills.” One which is incapable of processing any numbers, facts or rankings that doesn’t support the preconceived notion that Miami is just the gosh-golly, bestest public university this country has ever seen.</p>
<p>Miami gives a 10K automatic discount to good OOS students, which I have told you repeatedly. That means that if you are paying the bill, you are looking at a diffence between 15 and 27 between IU and Miami for the same student. IU wins, obviously, purely on cost. But then you have to look at what YOU can afford and what your kid wants. My son liked the smaller school with a focus on undergrads. And clearly, if you are accepted into the Honors college at Miami, you have a great shot at professional school. What is the best college for one kid is not the best college for another. Where I think that the fanaticism comes in is for the people who only see Ivy as high quality, or even BEST quality. There are schools that are ranked very highly that either have NO business school for undergrads, or schools that don’t rank as highly as Miami (or IU). My son would have loved to go to Northwestern or Vanderbilt, for example, but without undergraduate Business schools, they came off the list…not to mention the cost to attend.</p>
<p>When we start to get into merit aid, things become very murky. A 27 ACT kid that Illinois rejects and Ohio State waitlists, is going to be the kid that Miami wants to lure with merit aid. For them, I can see your point that Miami becomes the better option financially. When you start talking about the 30+ kid that U of I or OSU actually wants, then you have the much, much larger endowments of those schools kicking in, and I don’t see Miami being able to compete. That doesn’t mean that some 30+ kids don’t end up at Miami simply because they like it better or their parents are alums or cost isn’t a factor. I just don’t see how, given the low endowment at Miami, that they can win a bidding war for a student if that Big Ten school actually wants to recruit that student.</p>
<p>Getting back to the original point of Fiske’s ranking, I don’t see how micro factors like those can be easily quantified on a macro level to so easily compare different schools from different states, which is why I think Fiske errs in putting Miami on that list given their high sticker price. Do you have any info showing that students’ net price at Miami comes down to a level that makes it cheaper than the net price of the Big Ten universities?</p>