<p>A point that seems to be missed in financial aid discussions is that EFC = $0 does not mean that net price = $0.</p>
<p>That is because, even if EFC (whether federal or institutional methodology) = $0, a school with good financial aid will typically add an expected student contribution to get a non-zero net price. The expected student contribution will typically be between $4,000 and $11,000. The expectation is that the student can contribute from one or more of work earnings or federal direct loans (up to $5,500).</p>
<p>Expected student contributions on the lower end of the range can typically be covered by either a modest amount of student work or a federal direct loan. At the higher end of the range, the student will likely need to do both. At some colleges, opportunities for frugal living (e.g. choosing cheaper on or off campus housing) may allow the student to cover part of the student contribution by cutting spending.</p>
<p>Great idea of explaining this ucbalum. These students assume they won’t have to help with costs at all. Reality then hits them in the fall and they’re all asking now for money that they haven’t saved over the summer.</p>
<p>Or the parents wonder why the net prices at the good financial aid schools are $4,000 to $11,000 more than their EFCs (whether federal or institutional methodology).</p>
<p>The truth is, most colleges have no intention of paying for a student’s shampoo, travel, pizza with pals, health insurance, or even books…so the “student contribution” is often roughly an amount that covers those costs. </p>
<p>More to the point, 18-22 year olds should be able to find a way to earn/save enough money that they can contribute towards their education. They need to have some skin in the game.</p>
<p>One thing I want to add is, the net cost is calculated from the estimated CoA which may or may not be accurate. There may be additional lab fee or other fees not included in the estimation for certain major/program. My D’s school does meet the need completely and yet I am expecting a couple thousands more in expenses due to the courses she registered. Also, for the amount they put for text book and supplies in the CoA calculation, it would be very tight even if my D buy all required text books used and registered for near the minimal required credits perhaps because of the school of engineering. Unfortunately, these extra costs cannot be offset by scholarships as the school just reduced the amount of school aid for any additional scholarship she received. Anyway, we should not complain at all as we are just paying the EFC (+ the extra mentioned above).</p>
<p>Very true, @billcsho Just got my older kid’s bill and her fees are double those listed in the COA calculation because of all the testing and lab fees associated with her major. And books for the estimate? No way. There’s no used market as the students hang on to them to study for boards. First semester soph year, I remember the school’s entire annual estimate was blown first semester. </p>
<p>My daughter’s books estimate was $1200, and we’ve spent $1100 on just the required books for 1st semester. There is another $500 in ‘recommended’ books. The chem and calc books, I’m told, are good for the entire year, so second semester shouldn’t be horrible, but we aren’t going to make the $1200 estimate.</p>
<p>I’d say most kids can save on books. There’s the occasional new edition, university-specific bundle, or access code that, if purchased separately, negates the savings of renting or buying used. I think, though, the point @billcsho makes is quite valid. There are always SOME majors where you can’t save on books and SOME majors where your COA is going to exceed the estimate. </p>
<p>I love the whole thread, in fact. Why would you ever expect an outside entity to buy your shampoo or pay for your travel? I sometimes question whether we all shouldn’t expect to cover our own/our children’s living expenses, as well. </p>
<p>There are NO schools I know other than the military academies and some specialty programs MAYBE that GUARANTEE to meet full need as defined by the FAFSA EFC. None. Some schools define need totally differently with PROFILE needed, or their own calculators, others might use the FAFSA with a supplement, or additonal info and throw some additional twist to their own expectations as to what a family should pay. The PELL grant is set up so that it is an entitlement despite other aid given, but most schools just integrate that into the aid package, most often making it the very first item used to build that package. Some schools will not give out any loans or any non sub loans leaving those available for the student to use towards the student or even family contributions, others take every frigging cent in the package so that the family/student has to come up with that money themselves. When a lot of work study is stuck in the package that means a student has those hours already being earmarked to complete the aid package, not towards the expected contributions.</p>
<p>So meeting full need that some of the schools claim they do, have different definition depending on how the schools define need, and what they use to meet it and what they leave available to a student. </p>
<p>The NY state schools tend to guarantee to meet need for in staters as defined by tuition and fees. Discretionary expenses, including room and board for sleep away school as well laundry, transportation, shampoo, soap, are on the family and student. Given there is NY state TAP, federal PELL, Direct loans, as well as the SEOG, Perkins, work study funds, it’s rare the Sunys have to dip into their own coffers to meet that guarantee. Especially since the tuition and fees are not all that high. With SUNYs peppered throughout the state, a college eduation is affordable to most NYers.</p>
<p>I thought the military academies paid the cadets a stipend which basically covered their full cost of attendance. I didn’t think the FAFSA EFC came into play at all. The West Point students we know came from pretty solvent families, and didn’t pay a dime for their kids to attend the school.</p>
<p>No, EFC does not come into play with the military academies since a full ride is given, but for those families who are truly needy, additional funds can come into play. I just specified this because people have argued certain special program schools, that just by their nature will cover ANY EFC, the military academies being one of them. You know how people bring up every little tiny exception, Thumper. There is an American Indian school that guarantees to meet full need and is so constructed that anyone with a low or zero EFC would not pay, that I know of, but the narrow market is just about negiigible for that, but it’s there. A zero EFC student would get full COA covered by the military academies. A number of schools have free tution (or had ) with EFC met up to tuition, but full COA covered other than EFC… that is a rarity to be guaranteed.</p>
<p>There are FAFSA only schools that have minimum student or family contributions, exclude discretionary expenses, etc, etc. </p>
<p>That’s why it would be valuable if the common data would show what percentage of students get need as defined by EFC being all a family/student had to pay. Truly an apples to apples comparison, especially if the numbers without self help packages were shown. </p>
<p>Even mighty Harvard and Yale have required student contributions that they want in addition to the family contribution their formulas compute, and they want that student contribution even if the EFC is zero and the family doesn’t have a dime to spare. In such cases, the local college able to cover full COA with state and federal entitlements is a better way to go. My one friend who is truly in a desperate straits was pretty much living off of her son’s local college awards, in that they covered COA which covered some of the living expenses for the whole family as he commuted to school. When you get $5700 in full PELL and the tuiton for the year is half of that, and your kid gets few outside awards and a school grant, it means money in the pocket. Throw in state (PROMISE for WV) and you can actually make out, not that they are pouring on the gravy as things are very tight with them. Harvard would have cost them more money, not that it was an alternative. </p>
<p>Yes, cadets do not have to pay tuition, room, board or fees. Books and uniforms come out of their basic pay (forward funded and then paid off over time). Actual pay the cadets see is somewhere around $150/mo as a freshman and goes up as they advance. I was able to save $ each semester to pay for my roundtrip air fare to my home in NJ. Coming from a low income family was one reason I attended.</p>
<p>@twoinanddone wow…those are some pricey books. Is this for eng’g? I don’t think either of my sons ever spent more than $400 in a semester. However, if some/all of those books are “multi-course” books, they will cost more (and often be heavier…another concern if needing to lug around.)</p>
<p>Some courses require "packets’ rather than books, which are just reams of collected papers that the professor has put together. Can’t easily get the pack easily, and the price is often that of an expensive text book, for loose paper. </p>
<p>Yes, for engineering, and the books for chemistry were over $500, calc about $400. The used copies, if available, don’t have ‘access codes’ and they are required, so it is basically new or used through the book store, not Amazon or another vendor. There were another 3-4 ‘recommended’ books, but I told her to wait and see what others are doing.</p>
<p>check to see if access codes can be purchased separately…usually they can be for about $35. Since many/most/all of these books require access codes these days, usually the codes are ALSO sold separately so that the books can be reused. </p>
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<p>This still sounds strangely high. Are you sure that your D isnt buying both a bundle and separate books? or something like that? It is hard to believe that her school uniquely requires such expensive books. Colleges tend to use the same chem and calc books. </p>
<p>My daughter was also an engineering major. Her first quarter books, all purchased used at her school bookstore, were over $1000. The good news was that most were used for all,three quarters that year.</p>
<p>She NEVER purchased a textbook at her bookstore after that first term. She used amazon and half.com. Saved hundreds of dollars on her books.</p>
<p>It is not exaggerated. My D’s Organic Chemistry requires 2 books and one pack. Just one book is near 200 for a new one. I could not find the other 2 yet and likely need to buy from school. For Calc 3, there are also 1 text book, one student guide and another study pack. The text book alone is over $200, the student guide is around $100, the study pack is from school that we don’t know the price yet. My D has another engineering class that the text books are TBD but include one study pack from school that we know it would be expensive. All these are just for first semester but the Chemistry and Calc in second semester may use the same books. The engineering class in second semester is different and will need different books though. We are expecting around $2000 for text books for the whole year if buying them all new which is around double the amount in CoA calculation. When we went for the admitted student visit, there was a lucky draw for a $300 book certificate that the host said it would be good for 1 text book. She was not joking. ;)</p>
<p>I wish I was wrong, but I searched each ISBN number and most came up with nothing at all, or the school’s used rates were equal to anything on line so for ease I just ordered through the school.</p>
<p>I’d be happy with a $200 book; several were over $300. If we get there and find out something can be ordered cheaper, she has 2 weeks to return anything pre-ordered. I’m not hopeful.</p>