<p>While I understand the desire for precise information regarding fin aid awards particularly with ED, you may be spending a lot of time and energy trying to discover answers that don’t exist prior to the time the college makes its ED decisions. I think this is particularly true in the case of us self-employed folks whose financial pictures can be legitimately viewed in many different ways. A lot will depend on how much a particular school wants your child when they make the decision. We know that even the 100% need blind schools adjust their grant/loan ratios based on their perception of a student’s quality for RD, so too will they adjust total award amounts particularly when they look at financial situations which are ambiguous. I would echo the notion of “chill” because much of this is beyond prediction and control at this stage of the game.</p>
<p>garland, you have a cave? funny stuff. LOL. I really feel that way MOST of the time. I finally got a new cell phone today, the flip kind with a camera and supposed other functions . My old one was the size of a Kia and was a point of embarrassment to D, along with my oversize Bill Gates looking glasses. So there I was in a meeting and someone’s phone goes off with this faux-disco soundtrack to a 80’s porn movie (or so I was told). To my horror-it was me with my brand new phone set by the 19 year old store clerk. I’ll live it down but it will be a while. I drove straight to D’s school and had her change it for me. Not kidding.</p>
<p>Garland:</p>
<p>And how does fin aid value that cave? Second home? Has it appreciated? Lots of equity? You might as well forget fin aid when they find out about the cave with a media system! 
</p>
<p>Garland: the key to estimating the cave’s equity value is the purchase date, or, should I say, when you conquered or vanquished the previous ‘tenant’. The feds don’t care what it looks like, or even if it has running water, (but they will count the crick that runs thru the middle of Cur’s place); they just care about purchase date. [insert smilie thing]</p>
<p>I’m still looking for smilie things…I promise not to even ask about the grey boxes until I increase in stature from rookie member. (Or, I’ll send our own Zen Master, aks Xiggi, a PM.)</p>
<p>Cur: PR has a book: How to Pay for College without Going Broke, which I found helpful.</p>
<p>This is my favorite FinAid story: we live in a country where domestic help is very cheap and common even for middle class families. (Before all you PCers start flaming, let me add that working in a Westerners home is a dignified and coveted job. We tend to overpay. Our cook makes considerably more than a policeman or teacher.) We know a family – educators with several college age children – that under most circumstances would have qualified for generous aid. They had one heck of time explaining how they could afford 4 domestic servants plus a driver! The upshot was that they did explain and they did get what they needed from an ivy and a top LAC. (In fairness I have to include that they didnt go the ED route. They chose instead the shotgun approach and applied to some 13 schools.)</p>
<p>bluebayou when you post you can hit “go advanced” or hit “reply” on the bottom right of a post you are replying to, scroll down, down down down, no-don’t stop down down down.There. Now on the far left hand side there are 6 or eight short phrases like “you can reply” or “you can post”, below that are little blue words of which one is smilies on. Click on that word smilies. If it says smilies off , I would assume that you can turn it on by clicking on it. For now-type a : and then the word -cool-then another : and see what you get. Or : then “rolleyes” then : :rolleyes:</p>
<p>You are one brave woman momrath. I think I’d rather scream that I voted for Bush in the middle of the Berkeley campus than admit I had a cook on this site! Lol!!!</p>
<p>Try these, if your smilies are enabled just type those keystrokes, then hit preview post-voila! Zee majeeek, she is my mistress. **Don’t type the +'s ** HeeHee!
:+mad: Mad
:+p Stick Out Tongue
;+) Wink
:+( Frown
:+D Big Grin
:+confused: Confused
:+o Embarrassment
:+rolleyes: Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)
:+cool: Cool) Smilie
:+mad: Mad
:+p Stick Out Tongue
;+) Wink </p>
<pre><code> :+eek:
</code></pre>
<p>Can I ask a really gauche question about numbers? </p>
<p>What is the “cutoff” range for a typical family of 5… I mean, an income range beyond which a family would proabably be wasting their time to inquire about Financial Aid, but below which there might be need based aid? I am trying to determine where need-based aid peters out for this family.</p>
<p>Lets just say one kid in college
two younger siblings not in college
family of 5
no major health expenses nor other extenuating circumstances
own a house (to make simple let’s say one without much equity)
normal monthly nut-- with 2 car payments, insurance, taxes, etc.</p>
<p>what sort of income = forget finaid?</p>
<p>I can’t give you a definite cutoff but the on the College Board website there is a EFC calculator where you can put your information in to see how your finances stack up.
<a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;
<p>SBmom, have you visited Princeton’s site and tried its calculator. There is also a calculator towards the bottom of CCs home page.</p>
<p>SBmom
omg! You could be my twin with the “circumstances”.
Anyhow, both Princeton and Williams have their own financial calculators, go to their website and plug in the numbers. I tried 3 different times, with lower, exact, and higher figures.</p>
<p>SBmom, I plugged $150,000 AGI, oldest parent 48, with nothing but home, retirement, $10k in cash, and $50K in non-retirement held stock,two youngest in public school and $20k in Taxes and a Cali resident. At Princeton calculator they don’t ask about home equity or retirement accounts. I still have Mr. and Ms.X getting $7-8,000 a year x 4 =$28 to 32,000 if the numbers hold.</p>
<p>SBmom,by my calculations on the basic variables above the Princeton calculator is still saying there is a small need based award (about $3K) at $160,000, based on both spouses earning $80,000. There is something odd about the methodology because if one spouse is the primary breadwinner the $ change, and I don’t now why.</p>
<p>this is true. If one spouse earns the $160,000 and the other has no income, the EFC is higher than if the income is split. I suppose because the calculator assumes that the other spouse is capable of earning more.</p>
<p>We have punched in our numbers with same result.</p>
<p>Hey, you guys, if you know me at all, you know we don’t believe in “second caves”. No, this is a starter cave which we never moved out of. The rock at the front doesn’t cover the entrance right, so we’re always cold, and we’re pretty sure we’ve got bears (dang, need to call the exterminator). But it’s worth it to get the cave-kids through school.</p>
<p>The neighbors have been talking about your cave…apparently you’ve lived there long enough that it should be paid for and the walls are covered with valuable art. We’ve also heard you have the latest in fire! People are wondering how you’ve managed to save for the cavekids school with all that spending on lifestyle?!</p>
<p>Nah, it’s not paid for: We rented a pile of rubble until the eldest cavekid was nine.</p>
<p>And that art? Just scribblings we haven’t figured out how to wash off. Don’t know why the kids always seem to draw mammoths n stuff.</p>
<p>Funny I got a huge variation (probably due to Calif home equity that is large, that’s why my example above did not posit H Eq.)</p>
<p>Fedreal EFC was about 20K (much less than I expected!)
Institutional EFC was 60K!!! </p>
<p>Whoa!</p>
<p>I also have a weird situation. My H & I are self-incorporated. Our corporation holds few assets (intellectual capital, really, some computers, & two cars) Our corporate income is generally zero as we “pay” ourselves salary from the corporation & the balance at the end of the year goes into 401K.</p>
<p>Our personal income is high-- but not for Calif & the cost of living here. Our only assets are the house & the retirement fund and a small amt of personally held stocks. Our kids do have accounts set up by my Dad (that he wants us not to touch if possible.)</p>
<p>I have been taking the position that since we <em>could</em> swing the tuition (barely, with pain) I must not qualify for aid. I was shocked to see the variation in calculations.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the EFC business. I was given an EFC of 16,000+ with an income single parent (court custody of son) of less than 32,000. (Maybe I should be happy with that) Small retirement and a cd of 10,000 which I wanted to use to help in buying a small apartment when I return to California. (forget that) I put CA as my residency since that is where I grew up, I have driver’s license, banking and family but I have no idea if they will accept my son in the UC with local residency. I have written to them and they said wait until he is accepted. Fine, good. He has applied all over and loves them all. He just wants to be in the states, anywhere. What is institutional EFC? The CSS? I filled it out, but why? It was easy to do because we don’t have much. I feel sorry for the people who qualify. They don’t get much in the first place with tuitions as they stand now and they must have absolutely nothing.It reminds me of a West Wing program that I saw on a tape not long ago, where the dad meets with the west wing gang in a bar and is in shock as he is taking his daughter to visit colleges…he said something that really I could feel in the core of my being, as a parent, it is our duty to send our children to college…it’s not just a duty…it is such a gift a parent can give to their children. But why should it be so hard. Something is not right.I am surrounded by Canadians at work who can’t understand why we pay so much and Europeans who go to school for free. Maybe the schools aren’t that good; but I know that’s totally untrue. They have good schools, great schools. Why can’t we do something better for all our children? My son could go to Canada or the UK but he wants to be in the states. He wants to come home.</p>