<p>You might also consider that your friend may be lying. Hummers and Escalades cost big bucks, and it seems highly, highly unlikely that people who have the resources for them would have such a low EFC. Maybe the cars are leased, but they don’t want to admit it…maybe they are lying about the EFC amount…there is no way to tell.</p>
<p>The best thing to do is to count your blessings and don’t worry about anyone else.</p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck…</p>
<p>I think there is one major point that has not been raised here. Inequitable access. It is often claimed that students should not overlook more expensive colleges because, in the end, they may actually be less expensive to attend than the state school. So, we now have a situation where tuition is so great as to present a major hardship to the middle class parent with higher efc-but not to the parent with no money saved. I know many people (college professors, in fact) who have EFCs that would indicate that they can pay full freight at private institutions. But they really cannot afford this, and tell their children they don’t have unlimited choice as to where they may attend. The fact that those without money have greater options does seem wrong. A good education SHOULD be available for all. Absolutely. But the fancy private school should be a greater hardship for EVERYONE. </p>
<p>Like some of the posters above, I’ll say it, too. D has friends who received ipods and $150 jeans for christmas, but will be getting huge financial aid packages. We have always lived extremely frugally. The parents of those children are saying it’s okay to apply anywhere. Meanwhile, I have to explain that, even though we are better off, my D cannot enjoy the same privilege. I actually have to consider value. Is College A really WORTH $40k- especially when it takes many kids 5 years to graduate?<br>
I can’t imagine that the system will be able to continue in its current state. Many people who planned on sending their kids to private schools just cannot justify the cost anymore.</p>
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<p>I don’t like the system that igonores 18 years of savings vs spending and has a lot of other holes in it either.</p>
<p>But I don’t things will play out as described above … Harvard admits about 10% of the applicants … if the current tuition level and system scares away 20% of the applicants (which seems like a lot to me) then they will only have 7 rejects for every accept instead of 9 rejects for every accept. The top tier schools are in incredibly high demand and are almost all private schools … so as long as demand stays so high they will not have a huge incentive to change things much.</p>
<p>By the way I am not all that cynical about the schools … I believe they truely live missions to educate and change quicker than a profit market model would indicate they need to (for example the changes about % of loans by many tier 1 schools … which given the demand is not “necessary” but is a better way to treat their students). </p>
<p>I think the bigger problem is there is no good / simple way to determine each family’s fair amount to pay … it is a very complicated and value based process … and any solution will have big issues (although I still want the process to include earnings over the last 18 years)</p>
<p>Something else that should be pointed out is that just because an EFC is low, and the college meets the low EFC, it does not mean the student is getting more “free” money. Many times the low EFC packages have a lot of loans in various shapes and forms, and work study (which you can’t always get what you are supposed to earn). </p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to trade places with a low EFC family to get a “deal” on college. Years of financial hardship and more to follow would not even out with a better aid package for my child.</p>
<p>Mommaleh, it really is not as cut and dry as you have it. It can be for an individual student in a specific situation, but do remember that most colleges do not give 100% of EFC. Very, very few of them do. Check in any of the big, fat college guides. So the family who has saved has much more flexibility. My husband’s cousins are examples of middle class families living to the hilt, no savings and belly aching about the cost of college, and complaining about some kid getting a package to a private school. Yes, if you apply to Havorford, you are likely to get 100% of your need fulfilled if accepted. But if you are applying to State U and your EFC is within a few bucks of the tuition and you live within a half hour of the school, you are not going to get a dime, just loan referrels. But those are apples and oranges you are comparing. In order to get any federal grants–real money, not loans, the family income has to be very low. But if you apply to a school with its own money, they are not bound by FAFSA and EFCs, and if they really want you, they can be flexible with those numbers. Every school I know has some merit within need, even Harvard. Where is this friend applying that he is getting these huge financial aid packages and what are his stats? I have dealt with many college apps for over 10 years and I have not seeen very many windfalls. The cases where I have seen the most abuse have been in broken families and extended families where the supposedly absentee dad slips money into the situation behind the scenes or there is a deep pocketed grandma who does not exist on the forms . </p>
<p>My son had an incident with a bunch of scholarship kids at his school. One had a car, they all had cell phones, they all had plenty of money. He had none of the three and we pay full freight. What can I tell you? </p>
<p>As for the way the system is going, I felt that way 10 years ago. I was sure as was my H who is in financial services, that college costs could not go up higher. Boy, were we wrong! Another 5-6% hike, I understand, this year alone. We did not pay for college this year as my D got a wonderful scholarship and had expected to graduate this year. Well, she has to do another year, and the scholarship was just for a year, and let me tell you, the amount is going to be more than 10% higher than we were mentally thinking, just from being away from it for a year. H is in shock as he contemplates the tab for next year, especially since we have the weddings, 2 in college and were thinking of letting the other son board for highschool. Plus loans here we come.</p>
<p>I have a funny feeling that I didn’t write my first post well. Really, the primary point I was trying to make was, “I just hope it helps kids understand that the government is not saying that your particular family should be able to, somehow, actually pay that amount.” Also, I simply don’t think anyone should believe that somehow a government body somewhere has worked out a household budget for everyone who completes the FAFSA! </p>
<p>I feel bad when kids see that big number and then, perhaps, feel a little slighted when the parents say they can not afford that. The way the whole thing is presented (even the language, “Expected Family Contribution”) would make you think that it is based on some true scenario. I’m just saying kids need to understand that it may or may not be true - and the formulas, per se, do not know that.</p>
<p>I don’t really like the “I see welfare mothers driving Cadillacs all the time” conversation. </p>
<p>Everyone knows (I think) there are inequities in college education. Welcome to America! Care to tour our urban school districts?</p>
<p>“Something else that should be pointed out is that just because an EFC is low, and the college meets the low EFC, it does not mean the student is getting more “free” money. Many times the low EFC packages have a lot of loans in various shapes and forms…”</p>
<p>No…subsidized loans have been VERY heavily subsidized by taxpayers in recent years. It has been a scandal** (which I think may only JUST have been corrected…or not) that banks get paid around 12% by the government (read: taxpayers) while the student/family has been paying much, much less - one girl I know pays 2.4% for a stafford due to getting percentage points off for paying on time. Even reducing the amount that goes to the bank (and that 12% rate was in effect for many years that the actually cost of money has been far cheaper), the taxpayer STILL subsidizes the loan, whether or not the student pays the interest during the school years themselves.</p>
<p>There’s a misconception that loans are entirely paid by the student or family, and this is incorrect.</p>
<p>Edit ** The scandal is that the banks have been making out like bandits, not that students have been getting loans.</p>
<p>nedad, I read all thie time that the private sector does a better job than the public sector. Sometimes that is a bunch of crock.
Why doesn’t the government lend direct to the student, and save the taxpayers the money?
Let’s see. Money for the banks. Medicaid has to be cut.
What am I missing?</p>
<p>Interesting thread. My kids are younger yet so I haven’t had personal experience with financial aid. Home equity in a primary residence is not considered? That’s our primary savings right there. </p>
<p>We decided a long time ago to stay in our relatively modest first house, despite the fact we now make twice what we did when we bought it ten years ago. I was afraid the current market value of our home (at least double what we paid) would count against us. Do they consider the monthly payment at all when determining need? It wouldn’t seem right for someone who has chosen to take on a big mortgage to get more aid than someone who has chosen to live in a more modest community. I can’t muster a lot of sympathy for people living it up who don’t want to pay a sizeable chunk of their kids education.</p>
<p>As for those deep-pocketed grandmas, as long as they keep the money in their names, does that not have to be declared on the FAFSA?</p>
<p>kirmum - Agree with your posts on this thread and so interested in your thoughts on this: family is not retired, but much closer to retirement than others (older when had kids). So families’ retirement savings will be called upon much sooner than some others, maybe while S/D still in school, maybe just after. How does the EFC handle this and do you think it’s fair in relation to those who still have more earning years/saving years ahead of them?</p>
<p>For FAFSA, grandma’s drawers are off limits, but for Profile and some individual college forms, there are questions asking for any other possible sources of money. You are supposed to list Grandma and Uncle Joe who has promised a fat check for graduation, etc, etc. For the first year, until the money is actually paid, it is not an issue since who knows what will happen until it does? But for subsequent years, it can be a moral dilemma.</p>
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Yes, proud, relieved and fortunate. </p>
<p>Sure, I’d rather keep it all for world travel and lots of goodies. But one of the best moments in this process for S,H and me was our being able to tell S that he did not have to limit his search based on tuition costs of different schools, because we had planned and saved for him.</p>
<p>We should NOT get need aid, given our position. We can use FAFSA to see what loans might be available to us, should we choose.* We can be even more fortunate through S’ efforts and get merit aid. OR, we have the choice of choosing state or cheaper schools. Otherwise, suck it up. We are not entitled to 4 yrs at a “prestige” institution at someone else’s expense. Learning that your EFC is big, big, big$$$ is not the funnest moment, but would you rather NOT have the income/assets that you have?</p>
<p>*At least, I think that’s fair. Do others disagree? We haven’t gotten that far yet.</p>
<p>Subsidized heavily or no, the student/family is still footing a chunk of the bill. I think a lot of people think that just because your EFC is “x” that the school will just pay everything else for you, thus a low EFC would be better. How they get down to your need is not necessarily grants or scholarships.</p>
<p>thumper #1 - truly truly agree with your post #14. Sounds like we are in the same pay-it-ourselves position and while not joyful about the check-writing, resigned and as I and others said above, fortunate.</p>
<p>mommeleh - You have hit the key point, to my mind. There are those with very low EFCs who get lots of (needed) $$. There are those of us with huge EFCs* who get, and need, zero because we do, in fact, have it in the bank. Then, there are those who have not lived high-on-the-hog, but cannot just write the check, re-finance the house, etc. Their kids are the ones with limited options, at least that’s how it looks to me. There’s the unfairness.</p>
<p>*Did anyone else have the experience we had? H calculated EFC and thought the amount was for all 4 years (because it was well over one full year’s tuition and fees)? Sense of humor comes in handy at a moment like htat.</p>
<p>Life’s unfair. Some people have to tell their children that a parent has a terminal illness. Some people have to tell their kid to apply to State U. and forget about parental help for grad school. Some kids end up at a commuter school because otherwise, there’d be nobody home to make dinner and take care of the younger sibs while the parents are at work. Just how is it the responsibility of America’s private colleges to address all of the unfairness that’s been handed out to every 18 year old?</p>
<p>I get more irritated by the horrendous mess of our public educational system (K-12 plus U.) than I do about the alleged inequities in the private system. We graduate high school kids who read on a 4th grade level; somehow, I’m not losing sleep over the kid who got admitted to Amherst but took a merit package to attend Tulane on a full-ride since her parents couldn’t afford the EFC.</p>
<p>Mommeleh, I really diagree with they way you see this. Like any other consumer good, some people will be able to afford things that others can not. In education, this is why we have public schools, so everyone will have access to an education. Now I would love to teach, or even more, to practice only pro bono law. Unfortunately, if I want my kids to have access to private colleges, I can’t now. In either of those jobs I would make enoigh to still not qualify for financial aid but would be in that middle class category of really not being able to afford my EFC. So darn, I’ll slave away for several more years in corporate life because it is a priority for me to let my children go to their choice of schools.</p>
<p>Most of the poor simply don’t have job choices. That was certainly the case of my parents when I received full financial aid to attend college. Yet professors and many other of the middle/upper middle who often can’t afford their EFC did have a choice. They had to know they would be sacrificing things when they chose their professions.</p>
<p>Jmmom, I really don’t know how financial aid works for older parents but believe they do take age into consideration when calculating edc. Jamimon, others, you know this.</p>
<p>They do take age into account. But an issue that has hit many families are those who have not used qualified plans for retirement. Those assets are hit for college. Some schools like BC are now considering considering those assets as well. I have a number of friends who decided to go into real estate for a living as well as for retirement purposes, the idea being the purchase of rental property for income with its sale and gains being the *****on. Well, when it comes to financial aid, you can really get hit hard with this arrangement.</p>
<p>Though the poster who says that they only want 5% of savings/yr brought up a great point if this is true. Sounds very reasonable to me.</p>
<p>How come I hafta get up and fix dinner when I’d rather keeping reading CC?</p>
<p>ooh, ooh, I know: I’ll hire a personal chef, take it out of my savings, and expect a lower EFC.</p>