<p>Would 3rd author on a JAMA publication compensate for a 30 MCAT score for schools ranked between number 20(UTSW) and number 31(Dartmouth)? Assuming everything else is solid:</p>
<ol>
<li>3.8 from a top 35 US News school, double major,</li>
<li>2 years of research,</li>
<li>a couple hundred hours of clinical work as a medical assistant,</li>
<li>a couple hundred hours of shadowing,</li>
<li>President of 1 club,</li>
<li>hundred hours of volunteer work in a hospital,</li>
<li>running 2 marathons for charity,</li>
<li>great LOR from a VERY high ranking public health official (Captain in the United States Public Health Service Commissioned Corps) ,</li>
<li>great LOR from a renowned political science professor (adviser for all 4 years)</li>
<li>2 glowing LORs HHMI science professors.</li>
</ol>
<p>My application has a strong theme, where the culmination of all my research experiences, clinical work, is a JAMA publication.</p>
<p>I know I have no shot at schools ranked 1-20 with a 30 MCAT, but what about schools ranked 20-31?</p>
<p>Tx Resident</p>
<p>Are undergrad JAMA, New England JM Publications common?</p>
<p>JAMA has an impact factor of roughly 30.</p>
<p>Right now I am focusing on schools ranked 55-70. I don’t know if I should even apply to schools ranked 20-31 with a 30 on the MCAT. Maybe JAMA pub. can compensate to merit an application/interview to schools ranked 20-31?</p>
<p>If I were you, I’d take a shot at a few schools ranked in the 20-30 range. That said, I don’t think a publication makes up for a mediocore MCAT score since they indicate different things about an applicant. Adcoms understand that often publications for undergrads are about being in the right place at the right time rather than any particular aptitude for research. This is not to diminish your accomplishment but 3rd author indicates to me that this was not your own project and that you helped out with someone else’s project.</p>
<p>^ That is how it was, I helped out on my team’s publication. I wasn’t the one leading this investigation. I wrote roughly 20 percent of the paper. The first author wrote 50 percent, the second author wrote 30 percent of the paper. This paper was a combined effort between 2 National Public Health Centers, with around 12 authors. Outside of the first 3 authors, the rest of the authors were “consultants” who didn’t write anything for the paper. </p>
<p>I am just grateful that the decided to include me as 3rd author. I am the only one on the paper who doesn’t have a Ph.D. or an M.D. They could have pushed me back to like 8th author, but thank-god they didn’t.</p>
<p>We expect the paper to be cited roughly 500 times in the first 4-5 years. We expect the paper to be cited so often because it will be used by major public health institutions both globally and nationally.</p>
<p>I’m sure it’s a quality paper as most papers published in JAMA are. But, from a med school perspective, they are more concerned about your ability to excel in the med school curriculum. Publishing a paper in JAMA won’t mitigate that.</p>
<p>It is just frustrating to do almost everything right [get published, get into a major national research center, work as a medical assistant, get a high gpa, double major, etc] only to have medical schools question your ability to do well in medical school because of a single test that I can’t seem to beat.</p>
<p>I thought I was always good at standardized tests. Scored in the 97% on the SATs. I guess the mcat is just not my test and now I have to live with the consequences.</p>
<p>Even if this publication won’t help out in medical school admissions, because I could have gotten into the same schools that I will get into without this publication [med schools ranked in the 70s] at least I will have this publication for residency apps. Even then for residency apps, they want to see first author, not 3rd. </p>
<p>Rofl the JAMA publication is the only good thing that has come out of the huge disappointment that my entire undergraduate career has been.</p>
<p>BTW I got into a summer research program at UTSW (UTSW-SUMR). I don’t know if its even worth doing this at this point. It just shows that schools like UTSW like my gpa, and my extracurricular activities enough to take me into their really competitive summer research program but they when they see my MCAT score for regular med school admissions they will most likely not take me. I don’t feel like doing the summer research program, since it won’t help me out anymore, might as well spend this summer traveling.</p>
<p>You have to understand why med schools care about your test taking ability: you have 3 such tests called the USMLE to take in med school (and intern year). They’re 8 hour tests, 330 or so multiple choice questions each. And you can’t retake them if you “pass” (the passing score is the equivalent of scoring around a 23 on the MCAT). So, basically there are no retakes. Med schools are right to closely scrutinize the numbers of their students. </p>
<p>The JAMA pub will stay with you the rest of your life. It is a tremendous accomplishment and better than anything I (or most med students) have done publication-wise. I’m sure it’ll make for a good conversation piece during your residency interviews. But, it will never be a substitute for a good test score.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that the paper by itself is going to “compensate”, but you have strong ec’s/research so it is certainly worth applying to them. A third author in a major medical journal is pretty darn good for a pre-med, and it does count for something (honestly, even if you were first author I doubt the adcoms would actually believe that it was your own independent project, so I don’t see it as particularly less valuable just because you are 3rd). Besides I believe the average matriculant MCAT score for those schools is 32-33, so you aren’t so far below that it is not possible. This is especially true for the texas schools in that list. Throw Baylor and a couple top 20 schools in there for giggles if you have a little money to burn. I know a strong research guy (non-urm) who got into stanford with stats similar to yours.</p>
<p>Also, you need to stop beating yourself up. You put yourself in a good place overall, and with texas as your state of residence you are very likely going to be getting into a medical school. I would personally consider doing the program with UTSW. They and Baylor are probably your best shots for a top 20 school</p>
<p>I understand where you may be coming from if I scored a 25/23 on the MCAT. However for a student with a 30, the USMLE score should be around a 233. Baylor/UTSW have 33/34 averages for marticulants. Their average step score should be around a 238-240. I understand that if I were bringing down a schools reputation and board scores by more than 15 points they shouldn’t take me. Obviously a school like Columbia/Yale/Harvard/Duke shouldn’t take me because I will bring down their board scores by +10 points. However, if I am going to bring down a school’s average board scores by 5-8 points, they are going to question my intelligence? It is not like I am going to make the school’s match list look bad. I WANT to do PRIMARY CARE/Public health. So I won’t be that kid who doesn’t match into any of the ROAD specialties because of a low USMLE score. I think that if I score in the 220s which I think I can do, I should be fine for Primary care specialties/public health programs (EIS service is my main goal)</p>
<p>I guess that is just how the system works. They have way too many kids with great mcat scores and gpa applying, so why should they take that risk on me?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. Maybe I should do the UTSW-SUMR program. Who knows, after the 9 week program is over, the PI might be nice enough to add me on as a co-author on some publication that I will be helping out on. The averages for Baylor/UTSW are around 33-34, and they are cheap. I will definitely apply to schools like Baylor/UTSW/Mayo/University of Rochester, NYU, but even if I do get into lets say University of Rochester I don’t think the school is worth the extra debt, when I can probably get into a state school in Texas (UTSA, UTMB) that is much cheaper. Money for the application season is not a problem. MY parents are fine with me applying to 25-28 schools. I honestly wasn’t going to apply to any top 20 school except UTSW (Baylor is now ranked 21). I was just going to throw out applications to some schools ranked 20-31 and then apply to mostly schools ranked 40-70. What schools do you think I should apply to for fun that are in the top 20. </p>
<p>Maybe if they decide to interview me, at least I get to spend a weekend traveling to that school and chillin there for the weekend!!! If I got an interview at an NYC school, like maybe Sinai or NYU (probably won’t get interviews at any of the elite NYC schools like Columbia or Cornell) then that gives me an excuse to hang out in the best city in the world for a weekend!!!</p>
<p>This is my school list so far. Feel free to correct it/add schools to it. I will apply to 25-28 schools. You only apply once to medical schools, might as well have no regrets. </p>
<ol>
<li>UTSW (huge reach)</li>
<li>Baylor (huge reach)</li>
<li>UNT -DO school </li>
<li>UT-Houston</li>
<li>UTMB </li>
<li>UTSA</li>
<li>Texas A&M</li>
<li>Texas Tech</li>
<li>Texas Tech El Paso</li>
<li>Tufts -Combined MD/MPH in 4 years (reach? they get tons of applicants)</li>
<li>University of Miami</li>
<li>Brown (huge reach)</li>
<li>Dartmouth (huge reach)</li>
<li>Georgetown- NCG said it was solid for public health (reach? they get tons of applicants and most are well-connected)</li>
<li>George Washington- NCG said it was solid for public health (reach? they get tons of applicants and most are well connected)</li>
<li>NYU (huge reach)</li>
<li>Mayo (huge reach)</li>
<li>University of Rochester</li>
<li>Emory - Solid for public health (huge reach)</li>
<li>
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
26.
27.</li>
<li></li>
</ol>
<p>For the other 8 schools you think I should just make them reach schools like UPitt, UVA, Mt. Sinai, Case, NU, USC, ???, ???</p>
<p>If you were in my schools, NCG, and mmcdowe, where and how would you apply?</p>
<p>I don’t know how the calculator came up with that number but it doesn’t pass the eyeball test. The national average/median score for US matriculants is 31 while the average Step 1 score is 222 approx. So, your score would likely equate to a 220 or so (obviously, many things can happen in between you taking your MCAT and you taking the USMLE). A school like Baylor has average USMLE scores of approx. 235-238. The average USMLE Step 1 score for my graduating class was 240-241.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A school like Baylor and UTSW is going to see a ton of 34+ scorers. The question is why should they take someone who scored a 30? You have a solid 3.8 GPA but the rest of the application with the except of the JAMA publication is not out of the ordinary. Your score of 30 would be substantially below the mean at many top med schools. Yes, it’s only 3-5 points but we need to remember that a single std. dev on the MCAT is around 6 pts.</p>
<p>As a Texas resident, you definitely should apply to every single Texas school including Baylor and UTSW. But, I agree with you that your reach schools are schools ranked in the 20-30 range. It won’t hurt to apply to a few of those.</p>
<p>“Also, you need to stop beating yourself up. You put yourself in a good place overall, and with texas as your state of residence you are very likely going to be getting into a medical school. I would personally consider doing the program with UTSW. They and Baylor are probably your best shots for a top 20 school”</p>
<p>Beat me to it. Holy cow, kid, you have set yourself up for a very solid application (assuming you haven’t embellished your accomplishments). I think what you need more than anything is an attitude adjustment. So much of medical school applications is marketing yourself and showing your strengths–focusing on your “bad” MCAT score of 30 isn’t going to do that. Want to overcome that 30? Write outstanding, sophisticated, persuasive personal statements and secondaries. Be charming, polite, and articulate at your interviews. Ask questions that show you’re passionate about medicine and intimately familiar with their programs. </p>
<p>I had a 30/3.8 and a strong profile. I picked up 3 top-25 interviews. No reason the 30 should keep you out.</p>
<p>Now, in no way am I saying you’re a shoo in at top schools. All I’m saying is, for you to rule out schools you’d like to apply to simply because of your MCAT score is ridiculous, especially when you have a solid profile overall. Of course, there’s more to a school than its USNWR ranking, and you should definitely take other aspects of programs into account when deciding where to apply. But regardless of where you decide to apply, the “woe is me for getting a 30” isn’t going to help. You need to market yourself as someone that you fave schools would be crazy NOT to accept! </p>
<p>Hopefully you’re just focusing on this negative aspect by the nature of this board. If that’s the case, my apologies. If I were in your shoes, I’d be thrilled! Especially with a TX residency :)</p>
<p>And I agree with norcalguy. 28 is extreme. 15-18 would be fine, especially with TX.</p>
<p>@NCG. Lol, if the 31 really equates to a 220, then yes I understand why Baylor/UTSW wouldn’t want me lol. I may tank their board usmle scores.</p>
<p>As far as length of time it takes to complete application goes, I will cut it down to 23 schools. I have got nothing better to do this summer besides the research program, travel, and fill out secondaries. I will submit my app on the first week I can, so I should be able to get secondaries done before the summer is over. </p>
<p>***At least if I apply to so many schools, I can have time to travel around to different parts of the country should I get an interview!!!</p>
<p>Hahaha Kristen thanks for the encouragement. Expect a PM from me about personal statement help in the coming weeks!!</p>
<p>The reason I care about rankings is because from what I have seen in public health is that a lot is dependent on where you went to school. Looking at all the big-shot directors of major public health centers, they all came from elite schools. I was reading about some directors biographies, and most came from elite schools and worked for a couple of years only to become the boss of someone who went to a mediocre school but has been working in public health for 10+ years. That is the only reason I care about prestige. Maybe 20 years down the line into my career in public health, I will prove myself wrong and laugh at myself. =)</p>
<p>A 31 doesn’t equate to anything since the correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores is tenuous at best. You aren’t destined to score a 220 on your USMLE just because you scored a 30 on the MCAT.</p>
<p>There are several things at play here:</p>
<ol>
<li>You need to get over a 30. It was a disappointing score but you need to move on.</li>
<li>There are plenty of good med schools that aren’t ranked in the top 30. You need to do some research into which schools have programs that are best for your career interests.</li>
<li>28 schools is too much. I believe the average number of applications is 15. Aim for 20 if you want to apply to a few reach schools. </li>
<li>Don’t apply to schools simply because they’re ranked in the 20’s. Do you really want to live in Rochestor, MN? Or Rochestor, NY? Or New Hampshire?</li>
</ol>
<p>^ lol, I don’t know about Rochester, but I have visited New Hampshire, and Mayo before and I liked it. </p>
<p>There are other reasons other than prestige that I want Dartmouth/Mayo. There are a couple of institutes at each school related to public health. The more I read about those institutes the more I can see myself being heavily involved in those institutes for the next 4 years.</p>
<p>However you are correct, I still need to heavily research these schools before I create final list. I was just looking for a tentative list outside of Texas that maybe I can apply to. The only final thing on my current list are all the Texas schools nothing else.</p>
<p>I think it’s fine to look for schools that are strong in public health but I don’t suggest going all in at this stage in your career. We just had our residency match last week and I was shocked at how many people switched specialties even from what they were thinking as a third year med student. One person was complaining to me how much she hated presenting patients and rounding when we were M3’s–>internal medicine. One person was the co-President of the radiology interest group–>internal medicine. Another person was dead set on Obgyn–>Urology. You just don’t know as an undergrad.</p>
<p>A 30 on the MCAT does not correlate to a 230+ on the USMLE. If we want to do some sloppy, bad statistics, we could say that, since the average MCAT score for US MD is ~32, and the average Step 1 score for US MD (+ canada) is a 222, then a 30 on the MCAT would technically be less than that. Besides the MCAT prediction of your USMLE score has a huge confidence interval (like 30 points in either direction for 95% confidence). It is only a relative predictor rather than an absolute. Other things like your personal goals and environment play a big role as well.</p>