Effect of an MBA on Residency Application Process?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I was wondering what the effect of an MBA on Residency Application Process was. I have recently been accepted to a Texas Medical School (UT-San Antonio Medical School) and I have the option of taking a year off after my 2nd or 3rd year of medical school to pursue a 1 year MBA at a “top 20” business school. </p>

<p>I know that PhD has tons of weight in residency app process. I have seen kids with 220s on Step 1 getting into IM residency at elite programs which typically require 240+s on step 1 just because they had a PhD. I know that an MBA won’t be able to compensate for low stats but will it be a positive effect and if so, how positive?</p>

<p>I am interested in an MBA because I want to excel not only in clinical medicine but also in health care administration. </p>

<p>In case anyone cares, I was burned in my application process in Texas. My stats were 3.8+ gpa, between 30-35 MCAT score, and I interviewed at UTSW, UTH, UTMB, UT-San Antonio, A&M, TTELP. I ranked those schools in that order and got into my fourth choice school. I did not get interviews from Baylor or Texas Tech Lubbock. I am still on the waiting list at UTSW, UTH, UTMB. I don’t think I have much chance of getting in off the waiting list at UTSW, but maybe UTH or UTMB. </p>

<p>If so, with an MD from a “mid-tier” medical school and an MBA from a top 20 business school give me any step up in residency apps?</p>

<p>Top 20 business schools that offer one year MBAs are Northwestern, Cornell, and Emory. They may cost a lot to get, but all three schools offer significant scholarships (full tuition) depending on GMAT scores, and since I decided to stay in Texas for medical school (instead of going out of state), I am saving a lot of $$$$ which I can use to do an MBA.</p>

<p>Plus, the opportunity cost for 2 year MBAs is simply too high. Lost income as a clinical physician for 2 years can be as high as 500k, and the cost of a two year MBA is 100K, so by doing a one year MBA, I am saving roughly 350K in opportunity cost.</p>

<p>My versatility in the medical field and future income with an MD/MBA may be higher than a typical clinical doctors.</p>

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<p>Internal medicine maybe, but PhDs aren’t exactly the straight up golden ticket into residencies like they used to be:</p>

<p>[MD/PhD:</a> Longer, Harder, Faster: Decoding MD/PhD match lists](<a href=“http://www.neuronix.org/2011/07/nrmp-puts-out-charting-outcomes-in.html]MD/PhD:”>MD/PhD: Longer, Harder, Faster: Decoding MD/PhD match lists)</p>

<p>An MBA is probably not a huge boost at your level. If a hospital really wanted to, it could and would probably pay for a staff member to get an MBA in preparation for a larger administrative role, and there are many high level hospital admins with no MBA. I certainly don’t think it would hurt, but I was under the impression that MBAs don’t really teach you much and are more about networking. You’d probably be better off doing a year of research during medical school (which could easily tie to administration) than doing an MBA.</p>

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<p>Son was interested in also pursuing an MD/MBA. The schools he looked at for the dual program (the 1 year MBA) require the MD to be completed at the same school as the MBA. He looked at Cornell’s and NW’s and they both (at the time- 2 years ago) wanted the MD to be at the same school.</p>

<p>Do you have links or info that say otherwise? It would be most helpful if you do!</p>

<p>Have you taken the GMAT yet? If you look at the dual programs you can see that it is not just an insert a year here program. Rather they schedule your classes for the electives of both degrees and double-count very specific classes. Tuck does this with DMS, Harvard with their MS and Wharton with Penn’s med school.</p>

<p>Son’s current med school did not offer it initially (year he applied) but are now offering between his 3rd and 4th year. And yes it does save the time/cost of a 2 year MBA. He does have an undergrad degree in econ so that does help somewhat.</p>

<p>If you have info that speaks to attending other MBA programs other than your current med school, I’d love to see them!! And thank you.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>^ I do. </p>

<p>Can you send me a PM so I can show you the info? I don’t want to post this information online since it involves email communication between me and a director of a one year MBA program at a top 20 business school who says “they welcome MDs”</p>

<p>I was a business/science double major in undergrad. My medical school doesn’t offer an MD/MBA so they are willing to let me take a year off for a 1 year MBA as long as I “am in good academic standing”. I haven’t taken the GMAT yet, but since the texas match just ended and I am happy going to the school that I matched at, I can now start preparing for the GMAT. </p>

<p>These MBA programs that I mentioned above are literally “insert a year programs, 12 months of just MBA”. This allows you to still do research in the summers of medical school and not have to be overwhelmed by MBA classes. So it works out well, I can have all the traditional experiences of medical school, research in the summers, without stressing out about MBA classes piled on top of med school classes and my summers being overrun by MBA classes, and then I take 12 months full time to earn an MBA from a top 20 bschool.</p>

<p>Depending on one’s GMAT score, these schools offer lots of $$$.</p>

<p>Also, they waive the work experience requirement for MD students.</p>

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<p>I will admit i’m not super knowledgeable, but I still think a full year of research (instead of the one or maybe two summers your MD/MBA program would allow) in a topic relating to healthcare costs/admin would probably be more impressive than an MD/MBA.</p>

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<p>If you’re interested in health care administration, have you thought about MHA? Might be more relevant than MBA.</p>

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<p>I think Trinity University (In San Antonio) has a top 15 Masters of Health care management?</p>

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<p>In my view, an MBA is unlikely to affect your residency process very much. If anything, it might be a minor liability, as programs are looking to train physicians or scientists, and there’s a small prejudice against financially-oriented types.</p>

<p>Key words: MINOR and SMALL. But certainly don’t expect it to be a large help.</p>

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<p>there’s a small prejudice against financially-oriented types…</p>

<p>That’s kind of funny. They must want to stay above the crass realities of money. lol</p>

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<p>several baylor students i know are taking a year off and getting an MPH. It is perceived to have an advantage for residencies. </p>

<p>"That’s kind of funny. They must want to stay above the crass realities of money. lol "</p>

<p>OP is talking money here. He is liable to slip up and say the same thing about why he did an MBA. Although medicine is higher paying field, no one in residency application process wants someone around motivated by money. I actually hear a lot of doctors mention the sentiment that if your goal is to make money, there may be better choices out there.</p>

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<p>Perhaps still true, but note the difference. A PhD is generally in a liberal arts curriculum, usually STEM, which means scientific research. A biz degree is considered lower class by the academics; they even term it a ‘vocational’ education, not liberal arts.</p>

<p>Thus, while I have zero actual connections to med, but from 30,000 feet, I can’t for the life of me understand why any residency director would think an MBA would be a plus factor, more than a, ‘oh, that’s nice’ comment.</p>

<p>OTOH, an MPH or MHA could be a small plus, with emphasis on the adjective.</p>

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<p>They do offer MBAs that have Health Care Administration (or something along that line) concentration within the MBA. And I would think an MPH would complement, although they tend to concentrate on global/public health aspect with not so much of the economics aspect.</p>

<p>Son’s senior thesis was on healthcare economics (public/private) and as a result he is looking forward well past residency to what the complexities of medicine will be. Not so much the earning potential but rather policy and the coming changes to healthcare.</p>

<p>Kat
ps I tried to read all 200+ pages and understood very little, especially all the formulas…but what I did take away is it is very detailed and complex and will need deep understanding of actual medicine/science and math/economics and the ability to devise a plan to make it all work.</p>

<p>I think this is why he is pursuing the MBA/MPH.</p>

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<p>My versatility with an MHA won’t be as high as my versatility with an MBA. An MHA restricts me to just health care administration. With an MBA, I can do health care investment banking like Dr. Andrew ElBardissi on Boston Med :slight_smile: lol (Dr. Bar******) lol or I can work for venture capital firms, or pharmaceutical companies, or expand my private practice, or anything really. See the link below from SDN:
[MBA</a> vs. MHA- the showdown | Med Business [ MD/MBA, DO/MBA, DDS/MBA ] | Student Doctor Network](<a href=“MBA vs. MHA- the showdown | Student Doctor Network”>MBA vs. MHA- the showdown | Student Doctor Network)</p>

<p>Its funny, but I know some people who have MD/MPHs and who are directors of some hospital programs at the TMC. They all told me not to settle for an MPH but to go ahead and get that MBA. </p>

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<p>In my opinion spending 5 years for an MD/MPH is plain stupid. Most medical schools offer both degrees in 4 years (including mine, and most of the UT schools). IMO the opportunity cost of an MPH in one extra year is just not worth it. </p>

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<p>I completly agree. Those are my intentions as well. I was a business major and I spent two summers at my state’s public health department looking at the cost-effectiveness of state health programs like vaccination programs, and educational programs. This is what got me thinking about an MBA. Even though, I was a double major in Business/Science most of my interviewers for medical school said that with rising health care costs, we need more people who do have a stronger financial sense. An MBA won’t always be a bad thing. There are many hospital administrators with just an MBA or a non-MD/DO degree. They have a very limited understanding of clinical medicine. However someone who can see both perspectives may be better able to find a solution that is the best interest of his/her patients. Just maybe.</p>

<p>Katwkittens, I will PM you this weekend. I have a bad case of seniorities right now, and my school work is really suffering. I have to catch up with that stuff, but I will definitely send you all the information I have about one year MBA programs that welcome MBA students, before the end of the weekend. Sorry for the late response Katwkittens.</p>

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<p>^^^^ No problem. He has a year, clinicals+ step 1 quickly approaching!</p>

<p>I wouldn’t dismiss an MPH quickly though, son’s research at harvard’s school of public health in conjunction with MIT was much more quantitative than any of the bschools he was looking at with the exception of maybe sloan. Tweaking what is offered to tailor it to what one is looking for can be found in a couple of different places.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>if you dont get into one of the M7s, then it isnt worth the money. Part of the reason to go to business school is to take advantage of the superior OCR at the top schools. MD/MBA probably wont be able to take advantage of it because they will probably do at least a year of internship to get licensed</p>

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<p>sorry katwkittens, I can’t PM you with specific information like my email correspondence with various programs, until I get 15 posts on this forum. </p>

<p>Programs your S should check out:
Emory has a one year MBA program, and they are wanting to expand the number of MDs who are taking a gap year to pursue on MBA. </p>

<p>Northwestern has one as well.
[One-Year</a> MBA Program at the Kellogg School of Management, Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Programs/FullTimeMBA/MBA_Programs/1_Year_Program.aspx]One-Year”>One-Year MBA Program | Accelerated MBA | Kellogg School)</p>

<p>Cornell one year program:[Johnson</a> at Cornell | Accelerated MBA - Complete Your MBA in One Year](<a href=“http://www.johnson.cornell.edu/Accelerated-MBA.aspx]Johnson”>MBA Programs: Full-Time MBA Degrees | Cornell Johnson)</p>

<p>Columbia has a 1.5 year program: [Columbia</a> Business School MBA Program : Options and Deadlines](<a href=“http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/mba/admissions/options]Columbia”>http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/mba/admissions/options)</p>

<p>Most of these programs do not require any prior formal work experience for MD students. Also one program director, they told me that undergraduate curriculum is looked at closely to see if you will be accepted, but GMAT score are used in scholarship consideration. A few of these programs may give you full tuition off should you have a sufficiently high GMAT score. </p>

<p>Sorry for sending you this information so late, and for not being able to send you more specific information. Your S should just find the email address of the directors of one year MBA programs at these 4 schools, and ask them any specific questions that he may have. That is what I did, and I was able to get a lot of information about different programs at these 4 schools.</p>

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<p>"In my opinion spending 5 years for an MD/MPH is plain stupid. "</p>

<p>If you did not get into Baylor, you should not be able to discuss someone else’s stupidity.</p>

<p>They are more worried about getting a desired residency than figuring how to make the most money.</p>

<p>I know someone who went to UT undergrad, got a health MBA from WashU and is CEO of a hospital (was in high school in 90s). Why waste 4 years+residency if being a leprechaun is what matters?</p>

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<p>Sucks to have such a stupid kid :frowning: :mad: :wink: :rolleyes: :eek:.</p>

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<p>I think it’s important to figure out what your motives and goals are, and find a way to make your degrees congruent with that. If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then the arguments about opportunity cost of course make sense. But if the goal is different (eg being involved in health policy, hospital administration, government work, etc) then perhaps it makes sense to get degrees and experience at a more leisurely pace. I personally think it was pretty rude to characterize someone who gets an MD/MPH in 5 years as stupid, even though I can see how it might not make the most short term economic sense.</p>