<p>[June</a> tests up for cuts – Page 1 – Times Union - Albany NY](<a href=“http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=908475]June”>http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=908475)</p>
<p>What do NYS parents think about this possibility? I have seen a copy of the potential cuts to the Regents exam list and basically all Regents exams except those for English, algebra and one science are on the block.</p>
<p>The reason that I do not see the elimination of global and us history regents as a loss because there are SAT subject tests in these areas. on the DBQ section of the regents you can literally repeat the sentence and score at least one of the 2 points in value, and the Document based/ theme based essays for the most part is just more regurgitation, so what is the exam really testing. There are many schools in the state that do portfolio/alternative assessment instead of the regents (most still require the english and math regents).</p>
<p>If a student comes to school in NYS for the first time in the 11th grade they can be waived from the global regents requirement. If a student comes to high school in NYS for the first time as a senior global and the science regents can be waived.</p>
<p>At the CUNY level, you need to achieve a 75 on the english and the math regents to be exempt from the CUNY placement exam because the 4 year schools do not offer remediation. Even for students applying to EOP at SUNY there is an minimum english and math regents cut-off.</p>
<p>sybbie – a couple of problems with the idea of substituting SAT subject tests for the NYS Regents exams in global and US History: 1) the NYS curriculum in these subjects does not match up to the AP curriculum which is the basis for the subject matter tested on the SAT II; 2) in many districts few students take SAT subject tests (fewer than 5% at my daughter’s public hs) and those who do are usually in AP classes that themselves may be eliminated due to the fiscal crisis.</p>
<p>I would also note that while portfolio/alternative assessment may be somewhat more common in the NYC metro area, it is virtually unheard of as an alternative to regents exams in Upstate NY school districts.</p>
<p>My personal take, as a non-native NYer, is that four Regents exams – one in math, social studies (US History), science and English would be adequate to measure basic competency required for graduation and to meet NCLB requirements. Or you scrap the entire thing and go to a Massachusetts style MCAS.</p>
<p>from the article:
Really. I know that money has to be cut somewhere, but how much dithering, re-jiggering, re-evaluating, and general jerking around can the Regents do before our eyes cross? Could New York really be any worse off if it did away with the Board of Regents entirely? I still can’t get over the Great Math Botch-up of the last decade, when we went from Math 1, 2 and 3 to Math A and B and now back again to Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 (jeez - like we did it in the olden days!). We’ve been told how frickin’ important it is for our kids to take these 5 Regents exams for a Regents diploma. Quit tinkering already.</p>
<p>Another reason not to rely on SAT subject or AP tests is cost. Kids don’t pay to take regents exams, and even though there are fee waivers for the college board tests, it’s onerous paperwork. I don’t like the idea of enriching an outside agency, even if it is non-profit. (The head of college board makes a very nice salary and I’m sure there are others. Just because it’s ‘non profit’ doesn’t mean someone isn’t profiting.) </p>
<p>I also wonder how the elimination of regents would work under ‘no child’ legislation. Does NY state have comparable exams that would fit the requirements of ‘no child’, or would some be retained for that purpose? </p>
<p>We lived through the math changes, too. If you had kids 6 years apart, as we did, you went from Math I, II, III, IV (the ‘classical age’, - Roman numerals) to Math A and B, (the age of literacy) and now to Math 1, 2 and 3 (Arabic numerals as evidence of our growing awareness of the importance of the Middle East?). I don’t see an obvious replacement system, so maybe we’ve reached the end - well, we could use colors I suppose. </p>
<p>All this talk of regents reminds me. When son took Physics (graduated in 03) his transcript records a certain grade. Months after the fact, the regents were cajoled into re-scoring, so son has a higher grade than transcript records. I was so annoyed that they did this that I called and asked what they planned to do for kids who were in college - and was told that any future transcript would reflect the higher grade. I don’t believe it. And it doesn’t matter except that it shows how stupid these things become. It looked in my part of the state like the board of regents were bullied by well to do suburban districts who were surprised at how poorly their students performed on the test. (S, at school that was on one of the bad no child lists at one time, ended up in the 90s, so I can’t tell you what was going on in the well to do districts.)</p>
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<p>I noted the difference between 3 vs 4 tests in these two comments. If I had to keep 3, I’d keep 4 exams and include social studies, for two reasons: “what isn’t tested isn’t taught” (I don’t want to see social studies become as unimportant in hs as it is in elementary grades). Also, my experience described below… </p>
<p>This experience is from a poverty-stricken h.s. in upstate NY, before we moved to this nice suburb in Buffalo. It just rounds out the discussion to consider the schools that some CC parents have, in less competitive districts where few graduates go off to college.</p>
<ol>
<li>AP/Regents redundancy: For the handful of collegebound students taking AP exams in May, the June Regents exam are a cakewalk and slightly annoying. For those students, NYS are redundant but serve to boost the school’s overall scores and statistical profile. </li>
</ol>
<p>I think if any Honors student were to sleep in the morning of NYS Regents, the principal would personally come to the door and wake him/her up, just to boost scores schoolwide. For some this tipping point was so crucial it kept them from become a “School Under State Review.” So, wake up, smart kids, and take that test!</p>
<ol>
<li>Not everyone in a h.s. is collegebound. Around 9 years ago, as NCLB came in, the school district I mentioned (which has only 1 h.s.) began to require all-Regents diplomas (and therefore, exams) for every student. Predictably, their dropout rate, which they’d just gotten under control, spiked. </li>
</ol>
<p>I asked a most sensitive teacher (Harvard grad who taught both remedial and advanced maths at the school) what he thought. I assumed the reason they dropped out was because they couldn’t pass the Math Regents.</p>
<p>He surprised me by saying: No, it’s not the math. We can and do prepare weak academic kids to pass NYS Regents in Math and even Science. What we can’t rescue is Social Studies. That subject requires that they integrate several skills at once that they don’t have: comprehending a textbook paragraph, interpreting a map, and pulling data meaningfully from a graph, then apply critical thinking skills to answer a question that juggles these three sources. </p>
<p>He went on: When a weak student takes a Social Studies Regents exam in 11th grade and fails, he goes to summer school. At summer’s end, he takes it again and fails. We beg him to come back to school and try a 3rd time, but there’s no convincing. He’ll study all year and still fail that Social Studies exam…and not graduate. So they drop out before starting 12th grade, having already tried twice to pass NYS SocStudies Regents. </p>
<p>To some that would mean drop the Social Studies exam to keep the dropout rate from plummeting. I think the opposite; it’s an example of why it’s essential to keep in place, or our public schools in weaker districts will become a three-part stool of English, Math and Science. </p>
<p>The purpose of public education is to produce citizens we’d want to live with next door. Anything that weakens the teaching of Social Studies, in deference to Math/Science is a huge mistake for the future of a democracy, IMO. </p>
<p>Full disclosure: I’m not a social studies teacher, I just notice it being swept under the rug in this current discussion of which NYS Regents could go by the boards.</p>
<p>PS: I asked this math teacher what purpose it serves to make such a school “All Regents.” His answer, always honest, was that it raises the bar for the middle-area gray students who hover just below or above a D. Those students improve. For all the rest, Regents do only harm: for the bright lights/college bound, a waste of time; and for the very struggling students, reason to give up and drop out. He knew because he taught both sets of students.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, unless the NYS Education Department changes the NYS Regents and Local Diploma requirements I don’t see how they can eliminate all of these tests. Unless things have changed and my research is wrong, as of right now, 5 Regents exams (including the Global and US History) are required to receive a NYS Regents diploma. The modifications for local diplomas have to do with passing the exams with less than the required 65, or using the Regents Competency Exams, not so much with using alternative assessments (except for substituting SAT Subject Test scores). Though I would dearly love to see these tests scrapped in favor of rigorous alternative assessments, and fought long and hard for such alternative assessments starting over 9 years ago, I will be surprised to see the entire program (but for Federal requirements) scrapped.</p>
<p>@lefthandofdog, you brought back all those memories of Maths I, IA, 2Q…and the Physics debacle…back to me like a bad dream! Ridiculous wasn’t it.</p>
<p>Do they still use the Regents exam to offer NY state regents scholarships? I had one of those many moons ago. If they still offer this merit scholarship, will it now be based on SAT II scores?</p>
<p>I am not a huge fan of the Regents tests. However, as a NYS resident for many years I am quite irked with this being a place to cut the budget, when there are many fraudulent “civil servants” getting wealthy off of the state system ([Cuomo:</a> Lawyer pensions on school payrolls are “fraud”](<a href=“http://www.newsday.com/long-island/cuomo-lawyer-pensions-on-school-payrolls-are-fraud-1.878941]Cuomo:”>http://www.newsday.com/long-island/cuomo-lawyer-pensions-on-school-payrolls-are-fraud-1.878941)) and Albany’s extensive influence peddling. TAP is shrinking, and state parks, libraries and schools are getting hit.</p>
<p>paying3t: glad you were able to join me in a walk down memory lane. </p>
<p>You raised the problem of kids passing social studies, and as was pointed out to me there aren’t many times in life when anyone will be tested on two years’ worth of material, as is the case with Global studies. Kids begin the sequence in 9th grade and are tested at the end of 10th. “Global” should be the poster child for high stakes testing, for the reasons you cite.</p>
<p>Instead of eliminating the Regents, why not make them more challenging? Personally, as an AP student, I found the regents as annoying nuisances that I had to take a month after APs. However, they are useful for standardization requirements for graduation, which is necessary for a state the size of NY. </p>
<p>Also, I still don’t understand how people still continue to fail the watered-down regents. History exams were the most ridiculous. The scaffolding questions were absolute wastes, and I bet my two 99s on both Global and US were due to me having an answer that was not in the answer key. The curve on regents is quite annoying, also. My 87 on Chem probably wouldn’t be an 87 if not for the curve. </p>
<p>I apologize for the regents-rant. But, really, eliminating the regents is only another step in watering down graduation requirements in NY.</p>
<p>Hey, paying3tuitions, excellent post!</p>
<p>Where is this list? Which science course will still have a Regents exam?</p>
<p>Current Regents Exams:</p>
<p>Earth Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics
English (taken in 11th grade)
Global Studies (taken in 10th grade)
Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II
Language Regents- here I’m not sure, but definetly Spanish I and Spanish III at least.</p>
<p>I am not a conspiracy theorist (really!) but I am convinced that revavmping the entire system yet again is a quest for full employment of the testing bureaucrats. The current program hasn’t been fully implemented yet, they’ll have to spend years studying the new program, then implement it, watch it fail, and then start again.</p>
<p>The elimination of August and January testing dates is grotesque because there aren’t make-ups for Regents exams. Last year, my express bus got stuck for 2 1/2 hours behind an accident. A young girl who commuted to Manhattan for high school sat there sobbing and hysterical. We found out that she was scheduled that day to take the English Regents required for graduation. She didn’t make it and couldn’t graduate with her class, but she could and did take it in August and went on to CUNY Without extra testing dates, kids like that would have to remain in school for another year for one test which was missed because of no fault of their own (similar situation publicized for a girl left homeless by a fire right before her last Regents and the social services people required her attendance in order to place the family so missed the Regents and had to make up). How many of those kid will stay the year? This will do nothing but raise the dropout rates.</p>
<p>Millbrook63 – Here is the list. It is not specific as to which math and science Regents exams might be eliminated. I would guess that the ones that would be retained would be algebra and earth science or living environment if they are trying to establish a quantitative basis for acheiving basic competence in the academic cores for purposes of graduation and NCLB. Just a guess, however.</p>
<p>SUMMARY</p>
<p>Issue for Discussion</p>
<p>What actions must be taken for the 2010-11 testing cycle to reduce costs and remain in fiscal balance?</p>
<p>The item will come before the Regents EMSC Committee for discussion at the March 2010 meeting.</p>
<p>Background Information</p>
<p>The recent information regarding the structural imbalance of the Office of P-12 compels us to prepare contingency plans and options for the Boards consideration to reduce operating costs in the 2010-11 budget cycle. There are many variables that may impact our future choices including:</p>
<p>1.the final enacted 2010-11 state budget and reductions or restoration to General Fund support
2.the final 2010-11 federal education budget
3.the outcome of our RTTT application (phase 1 or 2) and other funding opportunities we are pursuing
4.staff retirements and attrition</p>
<p>Presented below are cost savings strategies targeted specifically at reducing the costs for the New York State assessment program. We have not included any actions that would compromise our compliance with NCLB requirements.</p>
<p>Strategy
Estimated Savings</p>
<p>Review all test development processes to reduce reliance on Education Specialists (Special Payroll employees paid on an hourly basis) and limit their involvement to critical work e.g. standard setting
$1.25 million</p>
<p>Discontinue paper-based scoring materials for Regents exams and post all scoring training materials and answer keys to website to let schools download prior to scoring
$.60 million</p>
<p>Eliminate Component Retesting in Math & ELA
$1.6 million</p>
<p>Immediately discontinue translating exams into Chinese, Haitian-Creole, Korean, & Russian- Continue Spanish and perform the work with Department staff.
$.75 million</p>
<p>Eliminate Grade 8 Second Language Proficiency exams
$2.0 million</p>
<p>Eliminate both January and August Administration of Regents Exams
$1.9 million</p>
<p>Eliminate HS Foreign Language Regents exams
$2.4 million</p>
<p>Eliminate Regents exams in Social Studies 5, 8, Global History and Geography, & US History & Government
$1.6 million</p>
<p>Eliminate 3 of the 4 Regents exams in Science (one is needed for Title I @ HS level)
$1.2 million</p>
<p>Eliminate 2 of the 3 Regents exams in Math (one is needed for Title I @ HS Level)
$.40 million</p>
<p>Total Estimated Savings
$13.7 million</p>
<pre><code> In addition, we recommend that the Board consider the development of an on-line assessment program as a means to achieve some long term savings through the efficient distribution, administration and scoring of the assessment and be piloted during the 2010-11 testing cycle. Although the cost for developing and piloting a selected assessment is estimated to be $1.5 million, the investment is likely to yield significant long term savings.
</code></pre>
<p>Zoos,</p>
<p>I totally agree that eliminating the August and June regents would be a disaster as far as students being able to graduate. I have also seen the scenario you described many times as kids were late for the regents through no fault of their own and could not take the exam. the sad thing is it will happen to the kid who comes to school regularly and does everything right.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, students take the exam once and all testing is completed by June of junior year, but the world is far less than perfect. Elimination of the august and January will do nothing but increase the dropout rate. </p>
<p>The August regents is already given too late in my opinion. After they are graded (remember summer school officially ends on the second day of the regents exam as the great brain trust did not even put rating days into the summer school schedule), there are very few people around to update transcirpts, certify students for graduation, issue a diploma and send the new information on to the colleges in time for students to register because there is one week between the end of regents and returning for the next school year, so most AP’s and Principals are on vacation. With the new changes in the contract, teachers, and GCs do not return to school until after labor day so many things that happen in summer school do not get updated until school starts in the fall.</p>
<p>After next year there will be no more local diploma. The class of 2012 will have to pass the current 5 mandated regents with a score of 65 in order to get a diploma. I think that starting next year the english regents will go from a two day exam to a one day exam.</p>
<p>As a life-long New Yorker I must say I always thought Regents were a waste of time and money. As someone who was barely passing Math in some year of high school (sophomore, junior?), I reviewed all the prior Math Regents and got in the 90’s. Did it show I knew my Math? Absolutely not! It showed I was able to memorize that which needed to be memorized as the questions are repeated from past regents. It also showed I came from a white collar middle class family in NYC and I knew I had BEST pass the Regents!</p>
<p>How can test realistically challenge middle or upper-middle class suburban kids while still testing basic understanding for those in more economically deprived school districts? I always tell my kids not to worry about the Regents because it’s designed for kids with less opportunities in education than they have. It’s ridiculous to think that all kids start from the same level, they don’t.</p>
<p>As you can see, I’m not a fan of standardized testing, at least in it’s current form. Even my daughter while still in middle school discovered the inequities in testing across the state. It doesn’t show what they’ve learned, it shows what they know, two very different things!</p>
<p>No other state still has these tests, (which was mostly true when I was in high school 35 years ago) although given that whole “no child” act more are adopting these kinds of tests. Teachers would accomplish so much more if they could just teach as needed not to a test. What a waste of time and money, imho.</p>
<p>There is also a French Regents.</p>