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<p>Why is this always assumed as truth? Wouldn’t a student body with predominantly wealthy kids offer greater opportunities for networking? Does knowing a kid on food stamps truly have a greater benefit over one with connections?</p>
<p>^^Greater opportunities for networking? Probably. If you think that is what college is for.
Greater opportunity to learn about the rest of the world? no.</p>
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<p>Very interesting article. This is precisely the type of “dishonesty” that some posters are alluding to. Remember, these are probably the same folks who used “diversity” to keep Jews out in the past. Why am I not surprised.</p>
<p>Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.</p>
<p>the statment from coot66 “don’t care what your economic background is or what your race is, in high school, everyone has the same chances.” is not true</p>
<p>And why’s that, tommy?</p>
<p>In my high school, everyone has the same opportunities to succeed. We have our share of minorities and poor students in top classes, much like we have a bunch of minorities/poor people in the “dumbed-down” courses. Anything’s possible if you put in the effort…</p>
<p>-The Poor Coot66</p>
<p>Read/scanned this thread, left my computer but returned - have to put in my 2 cents worth. A certain early poster annoyed me so much… Kudos to the young man for doing so well. I would like to SUBTRACT 200 points from the SAT score for everyone who ever paid for any SAT prep courses/coaching. Typically these students, who can afford to pay for test prep, go to the more elite high schools and therefore should be able to do well based on their HS curriculum. My son would still have a 2400, coming from an average (therefore good) public high school in Wisconsin.</p>
<p>The school district in our blue collar town tries its best to give an appropriate education to all comers (this means special ed, gifted, ESL…). Putting in the effort can be extremely difficult, for some it takes everything they have just to dig out of the deep hole formed by their parents- compare it to winning a race by starting 2X the distance behind the rest of the field…</p>
<p>Sigh. Life isn’t, and never will be, fair. If they could reverse the admitting game rules from my generation to my son’s we both would be at the most elite schools- gender, money… I wonder how many other parents worked hard to move up the socioeconomic ranks only to find the rules changed? I still remember years ago hearing a parent lament how their child wouldn’t automatically get into their east coast elite alma mater and thinking how, good, that leaves room for my son…but now being Asian doesn’t help… I wonder what the game will be for this generation of college goers offspring? And so forth…</p>
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<p>Why is this always assumed as truth? Wouldn’t a student body with predominantly wealthy kids offer greater opportunities for networking? Does knowing a kid on food stamps truly have a greater benefit over one with connections?</p>
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<p>Many colleges offer study abroad programs and community service projects in underprivileged communities that would help you “learn about most of the world”. Does admitting students with test scores 200 pt. under the median really provide a “richer educational experience”? Will math equations, historical events, and scientific theories change because there is a student with food stamps in the class? Guest speakers could be an effective tool for bringing in outside perspectives without compromising academic standards. </p>
<p>At elite colleges, students who meet high academic standards come from all over the country/world. Due to the geographic diversity, you can easily learn just as much (if not more)from students who are well-traveled and informed about world events.</p>
<p>coot66: what you are not accepting is that the argument has long ceased to be about “equal opportunity.” It has become about “equal outcome” at the college level. And, equal outcome is defined as the number of “disadvantaged students” with “different but equal” qualifications who are accepted. Kids know this and game the system expertly. Just look at the myriad threads devoted to questions about how many points a URM status is worth, whether a particular percentage of minority heritage can be claimed, or whether economic disadvantage can be claimed if daddy has money but student resides post divorce with never-been-to college mom who is low income, etc. Take a look at the threads where kids list their stats and either announce their acceptances or ask if they will be accepted to particular colleges. Notice how many place a URM/first to go to college/low income/single parent family status above grades, scores, EC’s. What intrigues me is how those who advocate for preferences are so offended when kids without those currently popular “disadvantages” question whether those “newly advantaged” earned their spots. Can’t have it both ways. And, yes, I feel the same way about kids who get into college with less than competitive academic credentials because they can shoot a ball into a hoop. “Dumb jocks” ,btw, have been derided openly forever and still are. And take a look at the graduation rates for those on the athletic express ride; shamefully low.</p>
<p>college:</p>
<p>My S has been inviting his college friends over, so I’ve got to know some of them. They come from different states in the US, with parents in different occupations. And yet, their experiences are remarkably similar. The exception is one guy who is a minority and who is attending college with a full ride.</p>
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<p>Maybe that’s the big problem…</p>
<p>-The Problematic Coot66</p>
<p>coot66: couldn’t agree with you more.</p>
<p>I understand the point that the article is trying to get across - top colleges are trying to level the playing field for low-income students. I get that. I’m merely saying that this type of affirmative action mainly applies to low-income minorities, such as blacks. Because I’m Asian, colleges will expect more of me, despite my financial status. They will expect me to have higher SAT scores, but they will give minorities an “advantage” when it comes to these things. The reason of course is because colleges want racial diversity more so than they want economic diversity. I agree, poor students are helped in admissions, but only slightly. They are helped much more if they are poor and are also from a minority race.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I am not saying that because getting into college is harder for someone like me that I will not apply to top colleges. I most definitely will. Colleges are trying to make students more economically diverse. However, what I’m trying to get everyone to understand is that they do this - accept low income students - mainly for minorities. Yes, low-income whites and Asians are also helped by this type of affirmative action, but not as much as minorities. Top colleges still expect much more from a low-income white Asian than they do a low-income black.</p>
<p>I’ll give you a real life example. I was accepted into a summer program with financial aid. However, the aid does not cover room and board and meals. Although I received a full-tuition scholarship (the most you can receive), I may still not be able to go to this program because my family cannot afford to pay what the aid did not cover. I know kids who spend $4000-$5000 on programs only a week or two long. How is this fair? I may not even be able to go to ONE program with aid and some kids are able to stuff their resumes with countless programs that low-income students would never be able to afford. Rich kids are admitted into Harvard and Princeton because of these fancy programs and poor students are left at a disadvantage when they apply to colleges because they have nothing like this on their resumes. Yes, the article says that top colleges are accepting more low-income students and I agree with that. Colleges are considering your financial status when you apply. However, the article is about a low-income black student. I’d like to see one of these articles about a low-income Asian student with the same stats as Mr. Black. I guarantee you it won’t be easy to find.</p>
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<p>It is too bad that the article equates low income with being African-American, but you are wrong about this. I know several Asian-American students who’ve attended Harvard. Last year, a CC poster–a Vietnamese-American–did a clean sweep of the Ivies and several other top schools, with a full ride everywhere. So I hope you will be inspired to apply to colleges that are likely to give you a need-based full ride while also applying to colleges that give good merit aid.</p>
<p>The essay in the ny times aricle written by this wonderful guy is awesome!</p>
<p>“Last year, a CC poster–a Vietnamese-American–did a clean sweep of the Ivies and several other top schools, with a full ride everywhere. So I hope you will be inspired to apply to colleges that are likely to give you a need-based full ride while also applying to colleges that give good merit aid.”</p>
<p>I think we_tard is saying that this would not be likely to happen for an Asian-American with 1200 SAT scores, that is to get all of these offers, because allowances would not be made on such a grand scale. I actually find this amazing, as so many immigrant Asian-American students did not even speak English until they were in middle or high school, but this is just accepted as the norm, so they still need very high SAT scores to get into elites. Whereas other minorities have more slack given them, even if they are born into English speaking households. (And I know a lot about black English speech patterns but parents can still go to the library and get books out, kids could have done their homework, parents could have been involed in school, etc.)</p>
<p>I remember once writing a note to a school explaining why a child needed an evaluation and an IEP for special help, and the mother said she would send it in with her 6 year old. I patiently explained to the mother, who had no job and was instead on every government program possible with oodles of free time, that she should really go to the school and personally take it to the principal’s office. She looked at me in total disbelief. Did the kid get the evaluation? I doubt it.</p>
<p>collegialmom:</p>
<p>The CC poster did have very high scores. As for the Vietnamese-American students who’ve attended Harvard on full rides, I have no idea what their scores might have been. My S does not know the scores or the current grades of his suitemates.</p>
<p>I don’t think some of you understand me correctly. Yes, some low-income Asians are accepted into Harvard and other Ivy Leagues. You may even have a friend that fits this description. What I am trying to say is colleges expect much more from Asians, even if they are low-income. Hypothetically speaking, just to give you an example, a poor black student with a SAT score of 2000 and better-than-average ECs is given a full ride to Cornell. An Asian with a SAT score of 2300 and also better-than-average, but not incredible, ECs is not given a full ride. Unfortunately, in this day and age, Cornell may even waitlist him. Yes, being a low-income student helps get you into a top college. But this mainly - not completely - applies to minorities. A low-income Asian or white does benefit from this type of affirmative action but not nearly as much as a low-income, or maybe even middle class, black or Hispanic.</p>
<p>My sister had an 1130/1600 on her SATs.</p>
<p>Yet, she graduated cum laude from WashU with a degree in Biochemistry/minor in Accounting.</p>
<p>Thus, this narrow focus on his -222 is asburd. Despite his 1200, the boy has a lot of drive, motivation, and potential. I value these soft skills more than an any SAT score.</p>
<p>I get the feeling that many of the students who get higher than 1200 also have “a lot of drive, motivation, and potential”. And I don’t think anyone is focusing on his SAT score as being the worst part of this story; what bothers me is that the extra special something that pushed him over the top was that he was poor and black…</p>
<p>-The Driven Coot66</p>