Emotional Immaturity

immature99 · March 12, 2011, 1:07am

Ok, I will concede she is a perfect angel and I just can’t get over the fact that I wasn’t good enough for her. I have to move on with my life because there are other fish in the sea, its not the end of the world.

Am I supposed to keep her in my life? I just have a hard time staying friends.
After I get my heart crushed, am I supposed to sit around and chat with her about her tennis lesson, or what guy she met at what party and what he said to her?

It seems it does not make sense to stay in that negative environment. Should I just sever the ties of our friendship and move on, forget her, and find someone who feels about me how I feel about them?

Whatever you guys say…I still refuse to back down from the fact that my feelings are very badly hurt and I just don’t want to have anything more to do with that person. I don’t understand why it matters, whether its her fault or no one’s fault. Its just a source of negativity in my life. What am I gaining from it?

Or am I wrong?

Nrdsb4 · March 12, 2011, 7:07am

That’s just ridiculous. No one has said “she’s a perfect angel.” And by virtue of the fact that she isn’t in love with you does NOT imply that you weren’t “good enough” for her. Just that you weren’t the right guy for her. No need to conclude anything more than that.

If you are still coworkers, then yes, you are. You do not have to make idle small talk with her about her social life any more than she should have to listen to details of yours. However, you should be able to remain cordial, friendly, and professional. If you are no longer working together, you as well as she is completely free to cut off contact and simply be pleasant, brief, and civil if you run into her socially.

You are the only one creating a negative environment-by not being able to “forgive” someone who had the gall to be friendly towards you without mirroring your own feelings. Yes, you should mentally and emotionally move on.

It wouldn’t matter “whose fault” it is if you weren’t projecting that it is. That’s what some of us are trying to say. You did nothing wrong by caring and verbalizing that, she did nothing wrong by not returning your feelings.

I think you must be gaining something out of it or you wouldn’t continue to stew in your misery and continue to torture yourself with irrelevant “why” questions. By making her out to be a bad guy, I guess you somehow derive comfort from the fact that really she wasn’t worth caring about to begin with and therefore you don’t have to feel inadequate. It’s a coping skill that by your own admittance is creating a lot of negative energy within your own being.

I don’t think it’s a matter of being “wrong” or “right.” You liked a girl. You told her. That’s a good thing in life. No risk, no gain. Someday you will say those words to a girl who will be delighted to hear them. Someday you may have a close relationship with a girl and at some point that relationship will end. Again you will be called on to use healthy coping skills to get through the pain of that and not create a pattern of obsessive negative thoughts, but learn what you can from it and move forward. That’s life and it’s messy at times.

Someday a girl will express interest in you-someone whom you genuinely like and whose company you enjoy but for whom you have no strong romantic inclinations. You will kindly reject her advances, remain friendly, and hopefully, she will have the maturity to see that it just wasn’t meant to be and not dramatize the entire event and equate your kind rejection to some kind of global conclusion about her self worth and your conspiracy to destroy her life. Then you will both move on. That’s the nature of life. Most of us went through several rounds of this (or many rounds of it, depending) before we met the true loves of our lives. All those experiences, both positive and negative, led us to become the partners we eventually became, and quite frankly, without them, we would not have been emotionally equipped to sustain a healthy relationship over the decades. It usually does take “practice” to learn how to maintain a healthy romantic relationship with another human being.

immature99 · March 12, 2011, 12:31pm

Thank you; a lot of that makes sense and it actually makes me feel better.

I still believe it means, that I am not good enough for her. Obviously I did not impress her in some way. I mean, lets face it, if I was a billionaire bodybuilder rock star, I probably would not have this problem. Something about me didn’t measure up to her expectations of the “ideal” love interest.

But I guess what you mean is, that there are OTHER people who I am good enough for. And the fact that I wasn’t what she had in mind doesn’t mean she doesn’t like me in non-romantic ways.

FYI: even after my blunt rejection I was still pretty nice to her, like I said.

But every time I run into her, even today, I REALLY have to force myself to even be cordial and nice, because I just find it very difficult to make peace with the fact that she hasn’t done anything wrong with me, and my own social blunders and inadequacies, ugliness, wrong personality, or whatever it is, is the reason things didn’t work out between us.

For whatever reason, whenever I think about her I still get very angry. Both with her and myself. Nothing you guys say, however logical, can change that. And I’m sorry but I am just so skeptical with psychiatrists and psychologists. My brother went to one for a while and it honestly doesn’t seem to be doing much for him. Sometimes I believe “you are what you are”.

Cardinal_Fang · March 12, 2011, 1:17pm

Is there someone else, someone you trust, that you can talk over this situation with? A pastor, perhaps? Maybe an older relative? Your anger, after all this time, is not doing you any good. I think you’d be better off finding someone to help you overcome it so you can move on to find the right woman for you.

It’s a little strange to see you write about “the reason things didn’t work out between us.” Things didn’t work out because there weren’t any things between you. You had a working relationship and that’s it.

Hugcheck · March 12, 2011, 1:44pm

I think you are mistaken in your thinking that, “my own social blunders and inadequacies, ugliness, wrong personality, or whatever it is, is the reason things didn’t work out between us.”

You are taking all the responsibility for it not working out.

The truth is, sometimes the other party is just not ready/situated/feeling the pheromones/ feeling a spark.

You could be the richest, most handsome, charming, suave, strong guy on the planet and some women just won’t be attracted. Perhaps their soul progression or something is pulling them in another direction. For whatever reason, they’re just not that into you. It certainly doesn’t mean you are not good enough in any way shape or form. It just means you are not the right match. My aunt used to say, “you have to find the guy with the right smell.” This does not mean you stink, fuhgoodnesssake. This means it just wasn’t the right chemistry. Stop blaming yourself; stop blaming her; forgiveness means YOU let the story go and move on. You forgive yourself for being in a situation that did not work out the way you wanted it to. Oh, you are not perfect? Welcome to the human condition!!!

immature99 · March 12, 2011, 1:47pm

Hugcheck, thanks a lot for that very insightful post.
I agree with everything you said!

I need to stop blaming myself for a silly situation.
If I really forgive myself, I won’t be angry at her anymore.

younghoss · March 12, 2011, 2:32pm

You still don’t grasp it, 99?
" But I guess what you mean is, that there are OTHER people who I am good enough for. "

No, that’s not it. And there is nothing to forgive.

It is that you now, are not what interests her now. Not that you aren’t good enough for her. How about a car analogy? I have certain needs in my business that I frequently haul lumber and various construction materials. Should I buy a Dodge Caliber? They get pretty good gas mileage. Should I buy the Chrysler 300? It has much more luxury ride, and it’s a good car. How about an electric/hybrid car? It gets better mpg but requires more coal. Is that better? Should I go for the Mercedes? It has a fine reputation of German engineering. Is it good enough? Perhaps a Porsche? German engineering + way sporty! Is it a better car? A Ferrari? Is it good enough for my needs than the Caliber or the others? All those cars can be good cars depending on one’s needs and wants, but none of those cars serve my needs/wants now. It isn’t that they aren’t good enough. Not any one of those would be right for my needs. To haul those materials I need a pickup truck.

<pre><code>If you believe “you are what you are” you’re goofy. Are you the same person as you were at 5? At 10? 18? Do you expect to be the same at 25 or 55 as you were at 10? Of course not. You learn and grow and change. As new info and experiences come in, your thoughts and beliefs, wants and needs, likes and dislikes change. The feeling that this was a deliberate conspiracy is wrong, and left unchanged could lead to unpleasant, maybe even dangerous situations.
</code></pre>

I know 1 guy who felt he was going to “make” his ex wife love him again. Not by showing what a great guy he had become, but by force. How he feels now, I don’t know, he’s still in prison. You’re not like that guy now. Don’t become that guy.
Your very best satisfaction with this girl would be for her to see you having fun with someone else that was fun, nice and pretty. You don’t want the first girl to think she might have a stalker. You want her to think she “missed the boat” on a likeable guy! Learn and move on.

psych_2 · March 12, 2011, 2:33pm

Actually, a broad range of CBT-based therapy (including both “traditional” CBT and “third-wave,” more mindfulness-based therapies like ACT) has scientific support for a broad number of psychological disorders and subclinical issues. DBT is primarily used in treating borderline personality disorder, although emerging research is applying DBT principles to traditional CBT models for emotional regulation purposes. It’s certainly not the only skills-based or evidence-supported form of therapy, though it is one.

immature99 · March 12, 2011, 2:53pm

Thanks a lot, guys. Your words mean a lot to me.

Well, I read your car analogy and I’m not sure if it is totally accurate.
You buy a car based on what you need. It is a logical decision.

But matters of love, especially when you are so young, are based on feelings, emotions, attractions. Girls don’t love me because they need me to haul lumber. They love me because that’s what they feel.

Of course, maybe she is into guys that are Hispanic, 6 foot 5, and play the harpsichord. In that case it is truly a matter of incompatibility.

But consider: she could be into just me, only a little more confident, more self-assured, and maybe more socially refined. It is very possible still, that I just wasn’t able to measure up with her “standards”.

It seems foolish to deny that possibility.
I think, in that case, I should shrug it off and find someone I measure up to, or fit well with, or what have you.

The problem is, haha…

As a mechanical engineer (with very few friends) I get a chance to meet so few ladies. When things don’t work, I take it more personally because I have less “opportunities”.

I understand that I can join clubs, etc. Its not quite that simple, but that’s a little out of scope for this discussion, I guess! I’m less interested in finding a girlfriend and more interested in just growing up and looking at things the right way, at this point.

fendergirl · March 12, 2011, 3:04pm

Girls don’t love you because you are going ga ga after just talking to them and freaking out afterwards when they don’t reciprocate. Not because you don’t haul lumber or something. That’s crazy. Girls are people too and they have feelings just as well. How weird do you think she feels with seeing you every day after she turned you down? I guarantee you she hasn’t forgotten about it. I think about it every time my guy friend did it to me and it honestly made me not want to be around him for awhile because I didn’t want to be around him with him having those feelings for me. Who knows why she said no but the fact is she did and you need to move on from it. If she doesn’t like you like that then she doesn’t like you like that. Who knows what it is? Maybe she just doesn’t think you are compatible. Maybe she thinks you blow everything out of proportion. Maybe she wasn’t ready for a relationship. Maybe she thinks you stink. Who really knows. You just need to be yourself and you will find someone who appreciates you for who you are.

Hugcheck · March 12, 2011, 3:17pm

I hear what you’re saying about how hard it is to meet women these days. The women are having the same problem. Once you get out of school it’s a real challenge, and if you’re shy and don’t have a big group of friends (even if you’re outgoing and have a big group of friends, from what I hear) it’s just hard to find “the one.” So if you thought maybe you found her, but missed the boat somehow, it’s soooOooo frustrating. Oh well, so it goes. There is no going backwards in life, unfortunately. If only we could have a few do-overs. But we don’t. And it probably wouldn’t change things, sad to say, even if we did. So how to find someone? Well, I am hearing lots of people who find lovely friends/relationships online, but that takes a lot of bravery, too, and the willingness to go out with someone with your hopes up and having your hopes dashed a good few times.

There are some very lovely people out there looking for the one. Then there’s an old saying that goes something like, once you stop looking, you will find them. I think that means kind of like a watched pot never boils - you have to soften the intensity a bit and just live your life with as much grace as you can muster, and as much patience as you can find. Then when you least expect it, there she’ll be.

Oh yeah and one more thing: You don’t really know this girl. We all have a tendency to “project” - that is to say, we make up a story in our heads about who this person is, what they like and dislke, how they would be to live with, to marry, to have a family with. We think they will be a certain way in arguements, in love, in everything. Well the truth is you have no idea who she really is. You have an idea of who she is based on limited experience. We all do this. I once wrote a poem about a boy I had a crush on when I realized he was my dream love living inside a cute exterior but in reality he was not what I had made him out to be in my head. BiiIIIiiiggggg disappointment; big realization.

It takes a pretty long time getting to know somebody dating and meeting family and getting in arguments and working through money issues and may be even discussing child having/rearing and where you want to live and what kind of house and what kind of food and etc. etc. before you know if someone is compatible. Otherwise you’re just acting like a puppet on a string and responding to some image you have of the person that is not real. Not. Real. And we all do this. You could find that if you did go out with her, you’d be (surprise) disappointed. So let it go, the ache WILL pass (so darned slow - hence all the love songs and achy poems). Then when you find the next girl, find out who she really is. You gotta get beyond the right smell, too, lol. Guess what. You will find her! You will!

Oh yeah and uno mas: Love, silly? I think not. Wars have been fought over love. Empires have been crushed over love. Books have been written; people have gone crazy; paintings of joy and sorrow have been made over love. Movies. Plays. Whole industries have been created - clothing, makeup, dating services. Religions, even. You have been through the love wringer, hon. Be tender with yourself; with your thoughts. Onward!

younghoss · March 12, 2011, 5:27pm

Sorry you didn’t grasp the heart of my analogy. My point there was that all those cars are good, some would be considered great, yet they weren’t what I was looking for.
I was trying to demonstrate that it wasn’t a matter of “good enough” but rather that though they are all good, they weren’t what I was looking for. Just as you tell us you weren’t good enough for her. Maybe you’re a Mercedes, but that isn’t what she’s looking for.
I can easily get as greasy and dirty looking as Keith Urban, but that doesn’t mean I should expect Nicole Kidman will date me.

BCEagle91 · March 12, 2011, 5:28pm

Is there anyone in this category?

How about reading some biographies of billionaires and how they got married. Bill and Melinda Gates make for a good example. They knew each other for many years before they got married.

There’s an old thread on the engineering forum on how do engineering students meet women. So there are other engineering students that find it hard to meet women. But they don’t express the feelings that you do.

immature99 · March 13, 2011, 12:28am

You know, its funny. A lot of you think I’m a psycho, but I have painted an incomplete picture. Let me try to explain.

I have rejected a few girls in my day! And I was very polite about it. They are not mad at me, I am not mad at them. Other girls have rejected me (sometimes even rudely), and I still like them and have no bad feelings towards them whatsoever. They were nice people and I don’t regret how I feel for a minute.

The problem is, I never even really liked this girl. I was attracted to her. We are totally socially incompatible in every way, and the only reason this incident “happened” is because we were cooped up like a couple of wild animals for ten weeks. I saw her for 8 hours a day and, you know, young hormones, I guess!

I’m not exactly sure why I reacted so negatively to this specific rejection, and not the others. So yeah, partially its because my feelings were pure attraction and a lot of things about her personality just drove me nuts. Another part of why I took it so badly is just her personality…

I feel as though, though she was nice to me for some time…things changed very quickly after I told her about my feelings. I remember one time I asked her out for coffee, and she just like, rolled her eyes at me. The more attention I gave her, the more condescending she started becoming. She was sarcastic and sassy with me,…she would lecture me on little things about me that were none of her business, and even snap at me all the time. even that one time, when I told her about my feelings, she just groaned and said something to the effect of “why does this always happen to me”.

At this point in my life, I had so little social experience. I have grown up so much then, but back then I was really a naive child about a lot of things. And this dramatic turnaround, about how she was treating me…it really scared me. I was afraid every person I would meet would eventually see me for who I am inside and just lose all respect or interest in me.

Well, after I got really offended, its very funny how things changed. I just stopped being friends with her for a while, and was just courteous, etc. Whatever I needed to do for work. I mainly just ignored her to the very extent I could without it becoming a workplace incident.

By the end of the internship she treated me like a COMPLETELY different person. Much more amicable towards me, was very careful not to offend me, seemed much more eager to socialize with me, ask me about my weekend, invite me to lunch. I started treating her like crap, and finally she approached me with a little courtesy and respect. Isn’t that weird?

I don’t understand if its because of the age old “nice guys finish last” slogan…or if it has something to do with the fact that she realized she had really hurt my feelings and felt guilty about it?

Its just- she was one of those people who, its really hard to be nice to. You know, when I do something nice to someone I do it because I want to be a nice person. But say, if you ask her about her day, she thinks you’re not doing it to be courteous. She seems to assume its because her day is SOOO interesting, I am so desperate to get some kind of sneak peek into her personal life.

Then again, I probably sound really bitter again. Bah.

immature99 · March 13, 2011, 12:34am

I would also like to reiterate that this really isn’t a big problem in my life. More or less, I am over her. I don’t see her that much, really, so its not a big problem. I’m just trying to explain that every month or two when I bump into her, I just get a big rush of negative feelings.

mousegray · March 13, 2011, 3:39am

Geez, immature99, I was going to say that you sound like a normal, kind of sweet, kind of obsessive young man, until your last two posts. I think you might still be a pretty decent sort. BUT. If you’re not careful, you’re going to work yourself up into a very bad place over this whole situation.

What everyone else says — that this is one learning/growth opportunity among many (of future ones) on the way to becoming a mature, confident man – is absolutely true. However, whenever anything, or anyone, pushes your buttons this much, it’s a good bet that it’s more about YOU than her. This is actually a huge opportunity to learn some very important things about yourself. Instead of just roiling around in your emotions, try observing the feelings without judgment, blaming, beating yourself up. This is how to dissipate negative feelings, not by pushing them down. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but it’s true. You want to create a little space between the trigger and all those emotions – that’s where the learning about yourself will happen. It will lead to more self-awareness and self-acceptance, which will lead to more empathy towards others, which will attract those others to you, which will lead to more self confidence, which will lead to lots of good things in your future… get my drift here?

(Also, I’ve noticed that sometimes girls who are super “nice”, who are very good at creating feelings of intimacy right away, can provoke feelings of anger and betrayal because they set up false expectations. It’s not really their fault, unless they’re being needlessly manipulative. Maybe this is the dynamic that went on here?)

blankmind · March 13, 2011, 9:13am

99, let me translate the behavior of your victim for you.

Your continued unwanted attention forced her into the position of trying to get you to leave her alone. She tried to be nice, but at the same time she didn’t want to encourage you, and you obviously didn’t understand that she did not want a relationship with you. Being young, she has never experienced this situation before, so she did the best she could to discourage you.

She felt threatened by your new crap attitude, and was trying to be nice so you wouldn’t harm her. I’ll bet that your anger was quite palpable to her. She is most likely very thankful to be out of that situation, that is, if she truly is. You don’t sound to me like you’ve let her go yet.

Please go get some counseling.

immature99 · March 13, 2011, 1:53pm

How big of you to come to a thread where someone is emotionally vulnerable and asking for help, and running your mouth like this.

I know I haven’t “Let her go yet”. I am troubled by this and came here to ask for help.

I really honestly don’t get angry that easily over most things, but I am really sensitive towards this matter and calling that girl a “victim” and saying she’s “threatened” by me is so absurd and offensive really rubbed me the wrong way. Such is the case when you ask for help on an anonymous internet forum I guess. Her behavior whenever we meet in real life does not indicate she is threatened by me, an I am a very gentle person.

I just don’t feel like any more “advice” so I won’t be checking this thread anymore. I think the more time I spend thinking about this mess, the worse I feel about it.

blankmind sounds like he has a few anger issues of his own. Maybe when his thread pops up, I can swing by and give him some of my own “tips”.

cptofthehouse · March 13, 2011, 2:09pm

Immature, your own description of being emotionally and socially “immature” is dead on. Getting into a close relationship with a person can be a tricky thing. What you are missing here is that most of the time, people don’t just out and out tell someone, “I like you a lot and want to have a closer relationship with you”. Yes, sometimes it does happen that way, but most of the time, it is a a process, and certain social signals are given, and if the response is not what it should be for a romantic relationship, you back off so that you do not embarrass yourself and the other person that way.

I suggest that next time you find yourself in a situation where you want to have a romantic relationship, that you work towards it more gingerly. Sometimes it takes time to get to thinking about someone that way. I’ve known a number of relationships that turned serious and intimate, only over a course of time and slowly moving into phase. An abrupt admission of “let’s get involved” might have ended the whole process.

This happened to me once in college. A very nice young man decided to cut to the chase without going through the preliminaries and caught me embarrassed, surprised and not anywhere prepared to even wanting to consider getting to know him better. Sorry, but I like more subtle approaches. You can continue your approach and hope to meet someone who can jump right into a relationship upon being asked or is secretly harboring the same thoughts you are, or you can try to move the relationship into those grounds slowly and graciously and privately let go if it appears that the other person is just looking at you the same way.

Emotional Immaturity

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