Emotional manipulation

Parent Cafe
21

If she is doing well, why do you know the details of what she is doing in her classes? How do you know she’s behind on her reading? I cannot imagine the circumstances in which I would have known that about my S in his second year of college. (Who I’m sure was at least as lazy as your ward, despite being at an Ivy. He only put the pedal to the metal when he chose to do so.)

Unless she has a pattern of getting into academic trouble, I think it likely that you are over-involved. Yes, her remark was hurtful, but I think it likely that you need to back off.

22

“The OP came here for advice not judgment.”

And they got it. Back off, stop judging and quit hovering over your adult student who by OP’s own admission is doing well.

23

Using the deaths of children to emotionally blackmail your parent is inexcusable. Insinuating that their parents are responsible for their deaths is horrible and suggesting that if she chooses to harm herself that it’s OP’s fault was a calculated move to control OP. And it wasn’t said in anger. She typed it, then purposely ignored OP for days. Mature, responsible people don’t do that to their parents. If it’s not okay for OP to try to control her daughter, it’s also not okay for the daughter to try to control her.

If this were my kid, I’d be at the school and we’d be having a conversation about pursuing an immediate medical withdrawal. Negotiating the steps to adulthood is normal. Attempting to do it through emotional blackmail isn’t. It’s clear boundaries need to be set, but OP isn’t the only one who needs to learn them.

24

Some kids need more oversight than others. In Op’s situation we really don’t know as there was no information given about the student’s academic performance.

Personally, when my 19 or 20 old D is going to leave campus for 3 or 4 days and travel to another city, I would at least like a “heads up.” God forbid something happened and the student went missing – would be nice to know which city to look in. YMMV.

25

An immediate medical withdrawal for making a snarky remark?

26

“Using the deaths of children to emotionally blackmail your parent is inexcusable. Insinuating that their parents are responsible for their deaths is horrible and suggesting that if she chooses to harm herself that it’s OP’s fault was a calculated move to control OP.”

No, it was a way to get the OP to back off.
The text messages were not written by a 30 year old, it was written by someone who may or may not yet be 20 who was also furious [ and rightly so] that her guardian was trying to control HER.
Brains dont fully mature until later and the OP’s " daughter" was just trying to create some space between the hovering, helicoptering guardian and herself.
sheesh…

27

Guess I see both sides…

The adult guardian who wants everything done to their expectations and a kid trying to set boundaries with an over bearing guardian who simply won’t give up the reins.

Who should “win”? (We already know nobody really wins these things. Both sides get hurt in some way.)

In this particular situation (as stated so far by the OP) my sympathies lie with the student.
No, it’s not a “mature” thing to write such cutting remarks but it certainly made the point clear which was their intention.
Once the student gains some independence the “mature” thing might be to cut off contact altogether in a more subtle manner and live with less stress. I don’t think that’s an acceptable outcome if it destroys an otherwise good relationship and hope everyone is able to start over with more open eyes.

28

@HarvestMoon1 wrote: “Some kids need more oversight than others…”

Agreed, and another part of the equation is some kids will accept more oversight than others.

That’s why there’s no formula to follow? For one relationship, the college student might bend and flex and cooperate with the parent’s expectations & involvement. In another relationship, the college student might break off communication with the parents, severing the relationship, resulting in a lot of pain & damage.

29

Tough love…helicopter parents need a clue.

College students are not kids. It’s time to transition your role from adult-child to adult-adult. It’s time. By infantalizing them…you are doing them absolutely no favors. In fact, you are setting them up for failure. If Mommy is there to wipe butts and scold and apron string through college…when do kids ever learn to BE adults? it’s bad enough to see people do this through high school, but college is a bridge too far.

Your child’s employer, spouse, landlord, ect…are not going to wag fingers and correct their misbehavior. If they do? That’s a HUGE crippling problem. Adults need to learn to be accountable for their own behavior and choices. They need to experience consequences and learn to self regulate. Time to let go, ladies. If you don’t…you’ll regret it.

I’m not saying to disappear from their lives. They need your advice. They need your love and support. They need a soft place to land and an ear when things are tough. When they make mistakes, they need advice on strategies to correct problems on their own. They do NOT need control, bail outs and unrealistic expectations of perfection.

What they need least of all? …are self obsessed mothers/fathers who are so concerned with their own need to be needed and relevant in their ADULT children’s lives that they destroy their kid’s sense of confidence, independence and self sufficiency. Every single time you try to micromanage your college student’s life…you are telling them in bright neon letters…You are incompetent. You are not capable or trustworthy. You are too dumb to run your own life so I MUST do it for you. It’s eroding to their self worth. It’s toxic and it’s selfish. Your fears are NOT more important than your kid’s emotional wellness and appropriate independence from you.

Rethink treating someone who is 20…like they are 12. It’s crippling for the kid, and it’s an extremely selfish thing to do. Your need to be needed is NOT more important than their need to self-actualize and make necessary mistakes.

As the OP recently learned…smothering your kid has consequences. You can only hold someone underwater so long…before they fight back, pull you in the water, and climb on your head to escape you.

You tell yourselves…But I’m just trying to keep my child safe! There are so many dangers and missteps! I’m just trying to help him/her avoid terrible mistakes! I’m a parent who actually cares…unlike these other parents who don’t even keep track!

You’re LYING to yourselves. This isn’t about them…it’s about YOU and your fears and anxiety… and your need to feel like the most important person in their world. Your need to be needed.

It’s not love…it’s selfishness.

30

Totally agree with the idea that there is no “formula” to follow. Each parent needs to follow their own instincts relative to their individual child. I know many parents on this forum have educated me on the fact that depression and other mental health issues often first present themselves between the ages of 18 -21. Staying connected, checking-in and having difficult conversations at times is not always over managing. For some college aged students it can make all the difference relative to their success .

31

The student’s use of the suicides as a guilt trip device is in excusable but it was likely said in a moment of extreme frustration and aggravation.

Students will just never be “caught up” on readings. It’s a fact of life especially for undergrads who haven’t yet learned how to effectively, selectively read. In the classes that we teach, none of us actually expect that students will read every word we assign. We hope they do and try to make the reading loads reasonable, but we’re also realists.

Students also skip class. I did it. Almost everyone did it. It is what it is. If her grades are OK, then, IMO, back off.

IMO, unless there was a previous reason to distrust her, she is an adult and needs to navigate her own life. If you are paying, you can tie expectations to those payments but you can’t micromanage her life anymore.

As someone who dealt with and continues to deal with depression, I understand keeping in touch with your child and checking in. That is MUCH different from knowing that she skipped some classes and is behind on some readings.

32

The student may have more success in being treated like an adult if she actually acted like an adult. The comment about suicide, in the workplace, would get her escorted off company premises and placed on immediate leave at many corporations. Companies have neither the time nor expertise in determining if the comment is serious or if she represents a threat to the safety of herself or others. Adults don’t make such comments lightly; irrational teens sometimes do. If she is truly mentally unstable, OP should intervene to get help; if she isn’t, she is extremely immature and needs more guidance in my opinion.

33

Oh, give me a break. The college student in the OP did not indicate she was suicidal. She basically said that there have been suicides on campus (truth) and pressure from family was a factor (questionable truth). Hyperbolic and dramatic? Yes. Mature? Not really. Effective to get the guardian to think about her level of involvement? Seems to have worked.

Reading more into that comment (“there have been a rash of suicides at Columbia recently, all caused by parents pressuring their kids”) is taking some liberties. Who here can honestly say they have never made an inflammatory remark in the heat of the battle to get a reaction and/or make a point? My guess is none if folks are honest with themselves.

Some of the reactions here are just as overheated, IMO.

34

LOL @MaryGJ – I don’t know where you got all that from OP’s post. You are ramping up her issue beyond recognition. But I have to say that I find your post #28 hilariously ironic given many of your previous posts. Like this one:

And then you go on to explain how your own home schooled D had to sit you down and explain to you that she wanted a life of her own. So one might think you would tread a little more carefully with another poster who asks for guidance with an issue that might raise concern for some parents.

Oh, and then there is this gem for your advice on possible solutions when you have not heard from a child in a while:

And while you’re chastising other parents for “infantalizing” and “apron-stringing” their own children, you apparently are calling the number at your own child’s university where local moms provide “sick meals” when the students are ill. Because you know

Wouldn’t think someone who wrote post #28 would go for any of the above. But I guess when it comes to our own children a different set of standards apply?

35

Hinting about suicide is never appropriate in my opinion. Inexcusable, actually., unless it is a call for help. The student has no idea what caused the suicides and to pretend otherwise is improper. This goes beyond the dramatic “you are the worst mom I the world” hyperbole into a far more serious realm. If the student doesn’t understand that, it is a problem.

36

Kind of odd that the OP has not responded back one time in all these posts. Makes me wonder…crickets.

And yes, hinting about suicide is NEVER acceptable if you are just trying to be cruel. Many of these posts make the assumption that a parent has no right to make rules for an adult, well you know… my money, my rules. You don’t like it, don’t take the money and you’re free to do what you want. Now we were not very controlling, but there sure were some conversations about not blowing off what our 250K was going to pay for.

To add, I’m not going to watch my kid fall on his face and flunk out just because he’s an adult. This money is a huge investment, and if it’s provided by the parents, yes, the kid is accountable to those parents (also known as ATM machines).

37

First, its not that parents have no right to make rules for the adult. It’s more that the types of rules and the manner in which they communicated/implemented need to be adjusted depending on whether one’s an adult(18 and up) or a minor(17 and under*).

Parents along with good managers/supervisors/leaders also need to be mindful that if they’re too micromanaging or controlling, even if it’s their money, it could result in unnecessary conflicts and tension which could have been avoided had there been a bit more discretion on whether the micromanagement/control is necessary for that particular child/employee/situation.

A fine balance between not caring and being a micromanaging helicopter needs to be made not only as a parent, but also by supervisors and leaders in the workplace and other areas of adult life and carefully assessed and reevaluated.

From the info presented by OP, it seems to many of us that what OP did leaned heavily into the helicopter/micromanagement territory.

  • In some families such as mine, one is also no longer considered a minor when one has graduated HS even if 17 and under and treated accordingly.
38

^Plus unintended and undesirable consequences - adult child pulling back, adult child not sharing as much, less close of a relationship, etc.

39

When I’m telling other helicopter parents…you’re being selfish… I’m speaking from experience…as someone who made terrible helicopter parent mistakes. I’m also speaking as someone who has learned really valuable lessons about this first hand and grew out of it. Thank God.

Micro-managing and worrying constantly… isn’t love. It doesn’t mean you love them more. It means you’re a control freak who is putting your needs before theirs.

I know it’s hard to hear, but it’s true. Which is probably why you were so pissed off you combed all 200+ of my posts to cherry pick a few quotes out of context. Kinda looks like I touched a nerve.

And by the way, my homeschool daughter sat me down to tell me she needed a life when she was in seventh grade. And guess what I did? I LISTENED to her, got over myself…and supported her quest for independence. I swallowed my pride and let her try public school. She loved it and thrived there.

I also supported her when she told me…with or without my money, she was going to the college of her choice that was farther away than I was happy with.

These were good decisions. They were painful and hard…for me. But they were awesome choices for her.

I am so grateful that I learned to recognize that her life is her own…that she is NOT an extension of me…and that to become a responsible adult, she had to make her own decisions and be accountable for the consequences.

I am so proud of what she was has accomplished…in spite of my attempts to handicap her with my own insecurities. I’m THANKFUL she stood up to me and became the woman she is.

40

Cobrat, I think you will find that adult supervisors, landlords, and other " leaders" are not likely to be overly involved in a coworker’s personal life precisely because they do not care, and perhaps should not care. Adults set boundaries with other adults with whom they interact. The OP is expecting some boundaries regarding decent treatment and a lack of manipulation by the adult student. Seems like both parties could agree to ground rules for a continuous positive relationship.