Reaching out for some parental advice here. I’m the guardian of a second year student at any Ivy League college. She is doing very well but is frankly lazy. Recently I had an argument with her when I discovered she had left town for several days to visit a friend in another city, cutting all her classes despite being behind in reading for two courses. She then sent me a stream of heated text messages in which I was accused of implying that she wasn’t studying and disparaging her ability (neither are true). But what really got me is that she ended one of her texts with the comment, “there have been a rash of suicides at Columbia recently, all caused by parents pressuring their kids”. I guess you are one of those parents.
I found this comment deeply wounding. She has now cut me off for several days–refusing to answer the phone or respond to messages. I must admit that part of me has been panicking and I almost caused Student Life to have them check on her. On the other hand, this strikes me as precisely the sort of “over parenting” administrators have been complaining about.
How do you draw the line? I want to be supportive but I do have expectations. I also don’t want her to endanger her scholarship and academics. In the past I’ve always been the one to smooth things over but feel that I have enabled her behavior. Thoughts?
Stop arguing. Tell her what the expectations are and what the consequences will be if she doesn’t meet the expectations. Then follow through. Take the heat out of the equation, and put the ball back in her court.
I would want to pin her down (calmly), on that comment. Was that a vicious, cutting thing to say to me or was that a cry for help? I would want to know the answer to that before I proceeded further. If my child said something that cruel to me, I would have a hard time maintaining my usual loving support. I would distance myself pretty rapidly, and let her rise or fall on her own. But if there is something serious going on, I would want to get them help. Immediately.
you need to stop “helicoptering”
If she is smart enough to get into an Ivy then she is smart enough to figure out the consequences of screwing up. I suggest you follow Chevda’s wise advise.
the student is technically an adult and does NOT need your approval or permission to go off campus.
back off, apologize for “hovering” , and recognize that what you did feels -to her- like you are think she is a child and you are trying to control her .
As far as the incident that started the argument --my own D did the same thing last semester. Hopped on a train on a Friday morning to go to a friend’s birthday party which was to last the whole week-end in NYC. She skipped all her Friday classes. I found out when my S mentioned the pics he was seeing on Instagram.
I did nothing but call her on Monday telling her that I hoped this would not be repeated and that school came first plain and simple. At the end of the semester her grades were more than fine so I just let it go. I do think we need to let them manage their own time and suffer the consequences if they are not prioritizing correctly.
Now the issue of what she said to you is another story. I agree with @busdriver that you need to determine whether she was serious or it was just a comment made to push back on what she sees as “over management” on your end. How have her grades been? I would try to arrange a call and talk it through so you can make a better assessment. If she won’t respond to your texts then I would text her again telling her you are worried, and that you intend to call Student Life to do a check if you don’t hear from her.
I think you need to back off. She’s adult. If she wants to skip classes or fall behind on reading, that’s her decision and she’ll face the consequences - or not. If she gets poor grades, then that is something to discuss at that time. You didn’t mention poor grades so I assume she’s been doing fine in college thus far.
Also, how do you know that she’s behind in reading and skipping classes? Did she tell you? If you push too hard and try to micromanage, she’s going to stop confiding in anything. That will put you in a worse position.
I agree with everything that’s been said here. LOL I would want to make sure that her hurtful comment wasn’t some kind of cry for help. But then you need to back off. Way back. How do you know that she’s behind in her reading? I would have no idea whether my son was behind in his reading. If you are monitoring her work that closely, then you need to take a big step back.
I’m also seeing she said something to you and is acting towards you in a way that communicates, loudly, “Back off. It’s my life”.
Rightly or wrongly, one of our kids often hears our interest in her life or benign questions about school or her friends as “interrogations” or “judging” or invitations for unsoliciited advice (oops, on that last one, guilty as charged).
We were quite hands-off before, but have backed off even further! She, in turn, is being nicer to us, and sometimes will send us a text (gasp!).
H & I decided we want to communicate to her that we have confidence in her ability to handle her life. We want to give her the space to figure things out, even if that means making some big mistakes or making decisions we’re not thrilled with.
We want her to feel unconditional love, acceptance, and support from us. Not disappointment. Not disapproval. Not lack of confidence. We want to be on her team, wherever that takes her.
I’m confused by this, if she’s at an Ivy there are no merit scholarships so they couldn’t be endangered? If she’s an Ivy League student she’s certainly not lazy or she couldn’t have gotten in there. I agree you need to let her find her way.
Raising my hand I skipped classes in college. Took a day off here and there for an extended weekend out of town. I didn’t do either often, but occasionally - when I knew it wouldn’t affect my performance. I certainly didn’t tell my parents about it – in the pre-Internet days it was MUCH easier to hide from parental oversight, lol. Many of my friends did so, too. It was part of a decision-making process we all go through in college.
OP, cutting a class here and there doesn’t mean the young woman is “lazy.” It may mean her priorities might need a bit straightening out, but if her grades aren’t suffering, she’s clearly succeeding in college. I’d let it go.
I’d text her and let her know that if she doesn’t call – not text – you by the end of the day you’ll contact Student Life and have them check on her. You need to set some boundaries. Since her grades are good, let her handle her academics on her own. If you’ve been intrusive, apologize. But I’d make it clear that making threats and ignoring parents are unacceptable behaviors. If my kid ignored my calls, he’d be paying for his own phone and living expenses.
Do you pay her phone bill? If so, you can check her phone activity - data usage, calls, etc. so at least you know she is actively out there. Ninja parenting trick when I haven’t heard from mine in awhile.
The only ways this wouldn’t be helicopter parenting IMO is if the student concerned demonstrated past patterns of such behavior resulting in mediocre grades and/or incurring school disciplinary/legal actions.
If there’s no such history of prior incidents, best to leave it alone.
I agree.
It was much more so if one’s parents were located across the continent or even the ocean as was the case with an older uncle who attended a MIdwest LAC and then Columbia SEAS on the 3/2 program back in the '50s.
Not to mention back in that time period, his family and many others were of the opinion that once a child turned 18/graduated HS, s/he should be treated as an adult and checking on a child in that manner undermines that*.
Said uncle was very frank in admitting he skipped out on some/most of the lectures and self-studied and focused more on having a good time with college classmates/being in NYC than attending classes.
While he did manage to graduate, somehow managed to continue for a professional engineering masters at the same institution, get his PE license, and worked successfully as licensed engineer for several decades, he regretted “wasting the learning opportunities” during undergrad by skipping those classes or campus academic lectures.
He recounted that story to his sons, yours truly, and other young family members to urge us to not do what he did as an undergrad and to take full advantage of all the learning opportunities in classes and through campus academic lectures. Something he has been making up for since by attending academic lectures at nearby colleges on engineering and a wide variety of topics as well as auditing/taking classes for self-fulfillment with my aunt during their retirement.
Similarly, I was given no oversight regarding whether I attended classes or how I allocated my study/EC/work/leisure time. Then again, I rarely skipped classes and managed my assignment loads so I was at least a couple of classes AHEAD for most so if I skipped a few days, it wouldn’t have made a difference in grades/performance.
Moreover, a large portion of the few days I did skip was for the express purpose of accessing rare primary source documents from larger research U libraries needed for a few seminar/private reading courses I was taking so the Profs were very understanding on that point.
Never told my parents about any of those skipped days and they’d be mystified if I did as they’d feel that’s something that I should be able to manage freely without the need to notify them.
Granted, a part of that is due to the fact in the '50s 18 year olds in the US(to a lesser extent due to a larger demographic pool to draw on) and my uncle's country of origin(Moreso due to smaller demographic pool to draw on and the imminent danger of invasion from a neighboring hostile political entity back then) were subjected to be called up to perform mandatory military service for ~2 years.
Also, women in the ROC(Taiwan) had to undergo civil defense training...including firearms training from HS onwards. It's something mom and her sisters would sometimes joke about now, but was deadly serious business back then.
My uncle completed his service as a conscripted enlisted soldier before going off to college at around 20, my father completed his as a conscripted junior officer(2nd Lt) after completing college at 20.
" She is doing very well but is frankly lazy. " (that’s pretty judgmental to say the least).
Well, she couldn’t be too much of a slouch and get into an Ivy. Those two polar views don’t usually even go in the same sentence.
I hear the whir of rotor blades. If she’s doing well then that’s all you really need to know.
“She cut classes despite being behind in reading…”
Yep. You definitely implied she wasn’t studying. And lack confidence in her to get the work done. That’s exactly what it sounds like from out here.
You are looking at your words (and intent) as loving concern and advice that may be fine focused towards a child but it’s really condescending to an adult. She’s now an adult not a child.
So back way off. Take some deep breaths and reboot.
And yes, it would be terribly cutting to get such a hurtful text. But (once you’ve ascertained that she IS alright) you need to realize it was a lashing out, back off message done in anger.
You think you can “parent” someone who is 20? Think again. Good luck with your “expectations and line drawing”…that ship has long since sailed. Reality Check: She is of age. She’s an adult. She can drop out of college, screw up her life and do whatever she wants. Without your permission, your blessing, or your approval. And there isn’t anything you can do about it. Yep, you could pull her financial support. But that would be a really dumb move if you want a relationship with her.
Smartest thing you can do…is come to grips with the fact that you have absolutely no control anymore…and encourage her to value herself and make healthy decisions for herself. Beyond that, the whole parenting thing is moot. At 20, the damage is done. They are who they are. They will make the decisions they want to make. They will make their own mistakes and you should let them learn from them. The biggest job you have at this point…is being there unconditionally and loving her…through her successes and her failures. How and what she does…is entirely up to her.
About the suicide comment…it was meant to hurt you. So is the phone shunning. She’s asking you to leave her alone. If I were you…I’d listen more and talk less.
I agree with Chedva that you should tell her your expectations and then back off. That being said, I wonder about your worry about enabling her in the past by smoothing things over. Is there a pattern?
You say you’re her guardian. Who is paying for her education and her expenses like traveling to visit friends while at school? Even if you are not footing the bill, as her guardian you should be advising her, at least until age 21.
@MaryGJ – I don’t agree with abandoning parenting once they are at college. When you read about and hear from your own children some of the things going on on college campuses, I conclude there are a whole lot of kids who could use more parenting not less.
I pay no mind to the term “helicoptering” – I do what I think is in the best interest of my own children-- I know them best. And if that includes “hovering” at times, so be it. So far it has worked out pretty well. I think the term “helicoptering” is overused. The OP came here for advice not judgment.
