Employability of BFAs

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I’m looking for data points on an issue that is becoming a budding family dispute.</p>

<p>For those of you who have been involved in the hiring process, in the sense of reading resumes and making hiring decisions, for non-technical positions:</p>

<p>If a job applicant’s degree was a BFA (bachelor’s of fine arts), as opposed to a BA, would that hurt their application in your eyes? Assume that the applicant has the skills required for the position in either case, and that the degree in either case is from a well-known, selective, US News Top 40 university. Assume that the BFA is in a writing field (as opposed to, say, music or dance). Does it make a difference if you know that the applicant’s BFA is from what is generally considered to be one of the top three programs in the country in the field in which they have the degree?</p>

<p>I would also appreciate input from those with BFAs who have had to seek employment outside the field in which they were trained at some point during their career, as to whether they felt the type of degree hurt them, helped them, or had no effect.</p>

2

<p>Very interesting topic! I’ll look for the other postings, as we’ve talked about this in our household as well.</p>

<p>Perhaps cross-post it over at the Arts Majors or Musical Theater major forum…</p>

3

<p>There’s been articles written about how an MFA is “the new MBA”, so I would expect a BFA would also be very marketable.</p>

4

<br>

<br>

<p>Do tell! DS is working on a MMA (Master of Music Applied) in performance. Hope that works as well as an MBA.</p>

5

<p>jessiehl- There are a couple of insights here, <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html&lt;/a&gt; and the idea of crossposting at the Arts and MT forums is a good one.</p>

<p>You may also want to do a search on the username MichaelnKat; I remember some posts and insights addressing their thoughts. (Sorry, I can’t recall specific thread names or discussions.)</p>

6

<p>thumper,</p>

<p>A quick google search: <a href=“mfa new mba - Google Search”>mfa new mba - Google Search;

7

<p>

</p>

<p>Very interesting thread! I’m not sure how applicable it is here, though, since the thread seems largely about performers and I’m talking about a writer (which is also why I’m reluctant to post in, say, the musical theater forum, but perhaps I should post in the arts forum).</p>

<p>In the interest of providing specifics, this thread is for my sister, who is making her college decision. She’s been accepted to NYU Tisch’s BFA in Dramatic Writing, and to a school that is in the top 20 but has no particular strength in her field. She’s getting some pressure in both directions…she goes to a performing arts magnet, and her teachers and counselors there of course think she should go to Tisch, and I know that she wants to, but she’s feeling family pressure not to - it wasn’t an issue until the parent in question found out that it was a BFA instead of a BA.</p>

<p>This is a very bright kid, good enough to get on the waitlists at Harvard and Stanford. She wants to be a screenwriter. She understands that finding a job or job security in the field is not easy, and understands the importance of being able to get a backup career (which is the reason that she applied almost entirely to “big name” schools, figuring that it increases connections and employability).</p>

<p>(Who is paying, since I’m sure someone will bring it up, is not really the issue - my divorced parents are splitting the expenses, and they disagree on this subject.)</p>

<p>I have my own opinion on the matter, and she knows what it is, but I also want to provide her with informed outside information to help her make the decision, whether it supports my “side” or not. And (depending on whether it does or not), it might assuage the fears of the parent who is worried about her employability. Which is why I started this thread.</p>

8

<p>Audiophile, thanks for the references!</p>

9

<p>I have a BFA and I have not found that any of my employers have cared that I don’t have a BA. That said, I also went on to get a law degree, and the jobs I have held for the past 20+ years have been in the legal field. But no one has ever raised the issue or given it a second thought. I am very proud of my BFA, though.</p>

10

<p>My D is pursuing a dual degree BA/BFA (5 year program), so it will be interesting to see what that provides for her when the time comes.</p>

11

<p>I am a headhunter for lawyers so I see lots and lots of resumes and have seen pretty much any undergrad degree you can name. Law schools don’t care what the undergrad degree is. My specialty is law, but I believe, based on dealing with the hiring practices of some of the largest law firms in the country that a BFA from NYU is absolutely fine. I know it would not work against her in any way for law school admissions so let the non-supportive parent know that she can always fall back on law school. Her goal of being a screenwriter is tough enough without putting on the added burden of having her go to a school without the strength in that field. She should be at NYU. NYU is known to be very academically oriented in their BFA programs - even in the performance BFAs. My D also goes to a performing arts magnet that offers a prime in literary arts as well as performing primes and NYU is the dream school of so many kids there. I would hate to see her not be able to go there based on misperceptions.</p>

12

<p>I believe it’s possible to attend Tisch and also take an academic major. If that belief of mine checks out, it might assuage some of the criticism of Tisch’s BFA.
As well, understand that a BFA is only around 30 years old, so while it’s fully recognized within the artistic community, it’s new info for everyone else to process. But so what? That’s what interviews are for.</p>

<p>Finally, has she gone through a course catalogue to count up the actual numbers of courses she’d take, outside Dramatic Arts, in the other departments during her 4 years there? It might add up to a lot of academic credits, although perhaps not a complete distribution of general education credits as a B.A. would provide. Still, she’s not exactly taking one Dram Wr course after another, either. Count up the courses and see if that influences the thought processes within your family. Seems to me, if you’re talking about
a differential of X fewer academic courses against the power of saying, “I went to NYU TIsch” plus the actual training in writing of that highly competitive program, she might sound more special with the Tisch BFA.</p>

<p>Other thoughts: if she completes a BFA and doesn’t feel sufficiently well-rounded, she might pick up a Masters degree in some other area. People often say, “take the BA and if you’re still interested in writing, then go for an MFA…” but that puts off a lot of solid training at a time when one is very hot to work hard on one’s craft.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Heh. The non-supportive parent* is a lawyer and would <em>love</em> for Sister to go to law school. Sister vividly remembers when that particular parent was <em>in</em> law school, and has no intention of touching law school with a ten-foot pole. :)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>p3t, I did see on their website that Tisch students can double major in something outside of Tisch. I wasn’t sure if this meant that they got a BFA and a BA, or if both were included into the BFA, since it’s the primary major. Perhaps I should ask the NYU forum about this?</p>

<p>*I feel bad using that phrase, since both of our parents are generally supportive of us and want the best for us. So I will qualify my use by saying that “non-supportive” only applies to this context.</p>

14

<p>I almost didn’t use the term “non-supportive” because of that, but I assumed there was support otherwise. I suspected there might be a lawyer involved. I would guess that it is the father and that he has not been involved in large firm hiring at all or perhaps not recently. Those at “biglaw” know that the undergrad major counts for little and that a degree from NYU can count for a lot. I could point out to the “parent” attorneys at the most prominent firms in the country who got their Bachelors or Music from Juilliard for example. The intensive writing would be an excellent background for an attorney whose skills of persuasive writing are much more valuable than lab sciences, philosophy and calculus. It appears that going to law school is not an option for your sister but maybe it’s time to humor someone a little.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>Hmm. I was going to keep which parent was which out of this, but now that people are guessing, I suppose it’s pointless…Mom is the lawyer, Dad is an actuary.</p>

<p>Mom has in fact been involved in hiring (recently), but she’s a patent attorney. Everyone her firm is considering has a science or engineering degree, because they have to (or to have an equivalent credential or work experience) to be eligible for the patent bar.</p>

<p>I think this is actually part of the issue. Nobody in my family knows anything about arts degrees. Mom has a BS in biochemistry, Dad has a BS in math, both work in obviously employable fields related to their undergrad majors. I was the first kid in the family to go through college, and I got a BS in neuroscience & cog sci and am in a grad program in computer science. Everyone involved in this dispute is well-intentioned and wants the best for Sister, nobody is knowledgeable. Which parent thinks what is basically a reflection of their personalities in general, and what strategy worked for them in life (liking to have things set and planned with an obvious path to success, vs. going with what you enjoy and not stressing too much and figuring things will work out if you have a good head on your shoulders and look for opportunities). Hence my attempt to gain relevant knowledge. :)</p>

16

<p>Wow - I engaged in some gender bias assuming Mom was the more flexible one, partly because the sticky wickets for the performing friends of my D are the fathers. Well, patent law is a completely different ball of wax. Not sure a lot can be done to change minds, but your sister should stick to her guns. The bottom line is that they have to trust her and embrace her uniqueness in the family.</p>

17

<p>Well, you are a great sister for trying to shed some light here. If it’s any consolation, these discussions are normal to any family with backgrounds outside the arts when the kid announces some desire to attempt a career in the arts.</p>

<p>Growing up in Baltimore, my lawyer dad used to tell us how his lawyer friend, “Mr. Marbury.” direct descendent of the jurist from Marbury v. Madison, closed his office daily at 5 p.m. and played his violin at the window as the sun set over Baltimore. He had a young dream of becoming a concert violinist, but his family insisted, “No Marbury is going into show business,” so it was law school for him. They used the term “show business” acc to my Dad, although obviously the story is l0th hand.</p>

<p>It is hard for parents to advise students who venture into the arts unless they have contacts in the industry. They might just feel insecure and know they’ll be unable to help in career transitions. It’s not that the parents must live with the uncertainty, but their kids will. If parents can separate themselves enough to not be surprised or upset when a newly graduated kid still lives with roommates, scrimps and struggles in the first years with day jobs, and so on, there is nothing to fear here. It is your sister’s struggle. She might be able to allay their fears. She could get a second major while at Tisch (DO check that out, whether online or just by looking up the course catalogue or department website), and that might help them somewhat. Or she could pick up a really good, marketable skill on the side such as foreign language instruction, EMT work, anything. Actually, writers have more scheduling flexibility than others who work in film. My kids are all in the performing arts, and among their friends are a serious, producing playwright who is a paralegal by day. </p>

<p>My personal philosophy as a parent is that I’m not going to be the one to make or break their careers. If the world tells them they have the talent, and I help provide the education to develop that talent, then they have a “shot” at success in the arts. If not, life is long and they can apply to law school at age 30 (as did my brother-in-law after he became dissatisfied as a B.A.trained jazz percussionist but finally wanted to have a family and some security more). He’s a successful lawyer today, and does some jazz playing in spare time. He made choices all along.</p>

<p>It is very hard for your parents but if it helps, just tell them that it might not be good to break somebody’s dream at this moment, if they’ve gotten the affirmation of a Tisch Dram Writing acceptance. Let the world tell her if she can or can’t do it, not her parents. </p>

<p>That’s not very practical, but then, I’m not the most practical person in the world myself. Still, things have a way of working out for kids, even through unconventional routes.</p>

<p>The fact that grad school (for many subjects) will continue to admit kids even up to age 30 and beyond is meaningful. Life is long. </p>

<p>She’ll just need a day-job to get her through her 20’s, no matter what, so count on that. If she wants to live modestly, she doesn’t have to starve either. There’s a lot of in-between going on, with post-BFA’s and post-BA’s with arts majors living in cities, working day jobs, trying to proceed. Some continue, some give up, but none have to say, “My parents wouldn’t let me try.”</p>

18

<p>I also went to law school, but haven’t practiced in years. When I took my D to one of her auditions - for vocal performance - a woman spoke to us who had kids in that college. She was back in school, finishing up the degree in music that her father had not allowed her to do when she graduated high school. She was very emotional as she told us she didn’t hold it against her dad, because he had her best interests at heart, but he shattered her dream and she never quit thinking about it.</p>

19

<p>My daughter is in school for her BFA and while I do worry about her future I don’t think that she is by virtue of her degree less employable than someone with a BA. Certainly a ChemE with a 5 year degree and internships is going to have a far easier time finding a job, but I think ultimately it has to be their choice and their life to live. Recently I asked my husband an attorney who chose that path mostly because of paternal encouragment (or lack thereof for his first choice - airline pilot) what would he do if he could go back and choose all over again. Without hesitation, he answered airline pilot. That was a pretty sad answer and one which he cannot at age 60 have a do over.</p>

20

<p>Obtaining a BFA or a BA degree doesn’t necessarily mean that the graduate is going to always follow along that path in terms of employment. Even medical schools are looking for applicants who are well-rounded in other areas besides the sciences. I have one Tisch grad (BFA) and the other one a Tisch student who is getting a BA, and I don’t think that it’s going to make any difference in terms of prospects for employment. Both of my kids utilized all of the resources that were available both atTisch and the University, so they maximized their future possibilities and were very goal-oriented. One of my kids took a minor in CAS, and the other one is double-minoring (a double major is also possible - some students even triple major). There is flexibility for Tisch students in terms of taking courses in other NYU schools, so they can branch out into studying other areas of interest.</p>