<p>I’m a girl from the northeast who’s interested in going to Yale for engineering. I like Yale for electrical engineering because I love the school and the fact that it’s not ONLY for engineers, like MIT or Caltech. By the time I apply, I will either have a 3.96 or a 4.0 in addition to an SAT of 2300 and SAT II’s of 800 (math 2 and physics) I am president of three clubs (quality ones), I founded one, I am on several leadership committees, I work, and I volunteer at least two hours a week. Unfortunately, none of my extracurriculars are science or math related, as I didn’t discover my passion for engineering until Junior year. Will this cause me a big problem? What can I do?</p>
<p>Just curious but if you don’t have any extracurricular experience in the STEM fields how did you discover that you have a “passion for engineering” in your junior year? You will need to be able to convincingly answer this question at some point so consider my asking a good warm-up.</p>
<p>Undoubtedly, Yale will first look to fill out its STEM areas with kids who have a record of achievement in these fields (published research, science fair competitions, math and science olympiads and other competitions, engineering programs etc.). There will many of such kids to choose from. Unfortunately for you, some kids think that because Yale is consciously trying to build up its STEM areas (especially with girls), they can just “say” that they are interested in these fields even though there is nothing in their backgrounds to support this and it will be an easy “backdoor” into Yale. It doesn’t work that way. The STEM kids who are accepted early or who later receive likely letters and an invitation to the Yale Engineering and Science (YES) weekend are amongst the very top science and math kids in the nation. So, your challenge will be to differentiate yourself from those kids who are just declaring a love for engineering without the goods to back it up.</p>
<p>In the absence of a strong track record in science and math, I guess you will need to write a very compelling optional Yale engineering essay and have at least some recs that emphasize your passion for and ability in science and/or math. Even with such, you will be up against some pretty stiff competition. Perhaps others on this board can give you some more suggestions or better advice. Good luck!</p>
<p>I went to a five-day engineering program at the flagship state school during the summer between sophomore and junior year and really enjoyed it. I also discovered that I’m really good at physics and math during my junior year (I’d always thought it was the humanities up until then, who knew) and I scored an 800 in both physics (having taken only honors physics) and math II for the SAT subject tests. I tried several times to get any kind of STEM club off the ground, but nobody wanted to join (I don’t go to the most academically-inclined school) and quite frankly I didn’t have the time with all of my other clubs and activities. Would my scores be enough, or should I select on my application a major that’s not engineering related? What else can I do?</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant sophomore year. I got those scores as a sophomore. I am currently a junior.</p>
<p>Do robotics or participate in Olympiads. 800’s in SAT II’s don’t show much. Winning a medal at an Olympiad would help you a lot.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion, but as previously mentioned, nobody in my school wants to be on a science/math/any kind of academic team. Anyways, the school’s too poor to start a FIRST Robotics team :’(</p>
<p>USAMO, USABO, USAChO, etc. are individual competitions.</p>
<p>You took the SAT I and II’s as a sophomore? Well, at least you have them out of the way. Since you are only a junior, you still have time to try to line up doing research next summer. Focus on doing this over the next few months. You’ll have to be persistent to line up a professor to work with you or you can explore applying to the various research programs. Try doing the Olympiads as was suggested.</p>
<p>When you are completing your applications to colleges the old adage “show then don’t tell them” them will apply. You don’t want to tell them about your passion for engineering, it should be apparent by what you have done. Again, best of luck to you!</p>
<p>Dead on, Falcon.</p>
<p>OP, the tippy-top U programs are rigorous and the competition generally has great breadth and depth in their preparation, including outside research or internships, plus school leadership, sports, clubs, community service. This is not restricted to what the hs offers- or doesn’t. If you are serious about this, you need to look beyond the hs. </p>
<p>And, MIT and Caltech do offer more than engineering- much more. I hope you’ve been taking a hard look at how these top schools describe themselves and their goals.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice! I’m also interested in economics (I know, I seem kind of all over the place…). Any advice on that as well? And should I decide now which one I want to concentrate on (for further developing extracurriculars) or should I wait until I’m sure?</p>
<p>Do what you want to do, and don’t try to change your life to fit what CC posters say you should do. You may not get into a famous school, but you will get into a school that is just as good as any of them.</p>
<p>shannon2 - I actually think you have decent chance for Yale. I think the letter of recommendation from your teacher can be pivotal in your case. Don’t leave it up to chance - start a discussion with your letter writer (needs to be a math or science teacher) and clearly let her/him know why you want to go to Yale and why Yale is a good place for Engineering for you. Choosing Yale because it is not exclusively math/science I think resonates with Yale. My son was in the same boat (did not apply to Caltech, MIT, etc.) and is very happy with his decision to attend Yale.</p>
<p>shannon2, I second the comments by keesh17. My daughter was also in the exact same boat you described. She was accepted at Yale (EA) and waitlisted at Princeton. You should absolutely apply, if you see a fit, despite the speculative and discouraging remarks posted here. Those remarks may or may not apply to schools like MIT and CalTech, I don’t know, but that isn’t relevant to you or my daughter. I just registered with CC just to set this straight.</p>
<p>Actually, her extracurricular activities were probably less substantial than yours and most other Ivy applicants, although like you she had a job. Zero activities or outside achievements related to science and math. Not an underrepresented minority (unless being female in non-bio STEM counts). She is not from the Northeast, like you, but is from a well-represented state. She was taking AP Physics, multivariable calc and other challenging non-STEM courses her senior year (AP Calc junior year). Her responses to the “why engineering” questions (I think both Yale and Princeton applications asked) were just honest statements like yours. </p>
<p>I suspect Yale and other schools value students who are open-minded and discovering new interests. That certainly is the message once you get to Yale. As for my daughter, she is now a sophomore CS major, tutoring intro CS, and in demand for a very exciting AI research project funded by NSF . . . and she hadn’t written a single line of programming until Yale. She loves Yale, in part for the same diversity of students and strong programs that attract you too, and for the other aspects covered elsewhere in this forum. She thinks New Haven is great. Best wishes!</p>
<p>@daddyof2 </p>
<p>I personally was not trying to be “discouraging”. I was looking for concrete ways that the OP could strengthen her application and increase her chances for admission. I did start by mentioning that she should concentrate on her essays and teacher recs to highlight her passion for engineering as keesh17 and you suggest. Also, the remarks I and others made are certainly NOT “speculative” and your characterization that they “may or may not apply to MIT and Caltech” tells me that you are right in saying that you “just don’t know” what it takes to succeed versus the intense competition at these top schools today. </p>
<p>The fact that you say these comments about adding depth to her application don’t apply to the OP or your daughter has me troubled. They may not have applied to your daughter but please don’t generalize her experience into advice for others. You state that she had “zero activities or outside achievements related to science and math” and " extracurricular activities less substantial…than most Ivy applicants". You also say that you are setting the record straight and imply that all that is needed is “honest statements” in response to the optional “why engineering” question. If this were really true, then the acceptance rate to Yale (and H&P) would be far higher than it is because I am of the firm belief that most of the kids that are applying to Yale as a STEM kid know how to write an “honest statement”. If it were only that easy that Yale values an essay over four years of hard work doing research or preparing for intense competitions.</p>
<p>As a counterpoint to your anecdote about your daughter getting into Yale, I will do something I try not to do which is talk about my own daughter. Out of respect for her privacy, I am not going to post her stats and accomplishments; you might well think I was exaggerating if I did. Nevertheless, I will say she had a very, very deep background in a particular STEM area. Last year, she was literally weeks away from applying to Yale SCEA for that field and then she decided to schedule meetings with various people there in the dept. (coincidentally, Gibby has written about one person, in particular, whom she met with). This one meeting totally turned her off to studying there even though she loved Yale in general. She decided to apply to and attend Harvard instead. My point is, had she not had that last minute meeting, she would have been the type of person that the OP might be up against - someone who was actively sought after by some of the top STEM programs because of her extensive work in her field as well as super-stellar academics & EC’s.</p>
<p>I am very happy that your daughter was accepted to Yale and enjoying her studies. I also hope that the OP enjoys similar STEM admissions success without bolstering her application. </p>
<p>Perhaps, I am wrong and your daughter represents the rule not the exception - i.e. Yale regularly accepts STEM applicants based on their stated desire rather than their record of actual accomplishments. Everything I know about the school, however, tells me otherwise and that the competition only gets stiffer each year. My advice to the OP is still the same, if electrical engineering is your passion than try to re-enforce that love of science and math as much as you can so that your teachers and you can easily write about it and you have a body of work to show for it. The same applies more or less for economics (okay less). Can you get in as a STEM student without doing anything more than writing some good essays and having good recs? Of course you can, but you’ll have to beat out the many kids like my daughter to do so. Good luck!</p>
<p>Sorry, did not mean to start a battle.</p>
<p>Of course, all of these schools, including Yale, want STEM students who have shown passion for the field and amazing accomplishments in it. Building experience before applying, and all the other advice, makes perfect sense. Peace. </p>
<p>My only point is that there are at least SOME schools that will ALSO accept/waitlist SOME applicants who don’t have such depth. Anecdotes are a dangerous way to support a hypothesis, but they can be handy to defuse a generalization. Perhaps there are only one or two exceptions to the “rule,” or maybe the rule isn’t so definitive. I’ll leave that question to others.</p>
<p>In reference to honest statements, I meant only that at least in SOME cases it can work if the applicant just straightforwardly acknowledges that she doesn’t have an extensive resume in the field and yet discovered talents and interest towards the end of a high school career, as shannon2 has done. This is most certainly not all that is needed for gaining admission. And I assume honest statements work best in all situations, not just shannon2’s. I apologize for causing confusion.</p>
<p>I wanted shannon2 to know these things because I felt they were not clearly expressed in earlier posts. Shannon2’s story, including the school environment, just sounded so dang familiar. Shannon2, best wishes!</p>
<p>^^ All right, makes good sense. We both just want her to succeed!</p>
<p>^^ @dd02 And there really are no rules. Getting into Yale requires a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck as I’m sure you’ll agree. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are many kids like your daughter where they don’t have extensive backgrounds in STEM but are admitted because Yale saw something special in them.</p>
<p>Well, the “rules” do include that if you want a strenuous program , that involves particular challenges and mindset, at a highly competitive U, you do need to show experience beyond classes. When we cite exceptions, we generally do not know what else about the app package inspired the particular confidence required in adcoms. I read for an Ivy and plenty of Stem. An “honest” representation is generally not enough. Not when hordes have been out there paying their dues.<br>
Maybe OP is fine. We can’t tell from a CC summary. But Falcon’s advice to get activated is sound.</p>
<p>(And I’m not sure what it means that OP is so “passionate” about engineering, then do easily shifts to econ. Fine, but ?</p>
<p>^^ Thanks lookingforward Yes, I felt that too about the econ but let it go.</p>
<p>It might make sense to look at this way: shannon2 may get evaluated alongside the many many applicants who are “undecided” as to a major and career, rather than side-by-side with candidates like falcon1’s daughter with deep STEM credentials. Would Yale consider it a drawback, relative to other “undecided” candidates, that shannon2 has classroom talent in math and physics, even if she may change her mind and pursue econ or art? Probably not. I believe Yale embraces the “undecided” and “exploring” candidates alongside the highly committed specialists, as long as they are genuine and show leadership potential in one form or another. Either way, admission is not easy</p>