<p>I just ran into a bit of a tricky situation at a job interview and wondered what others thought the right response would be. I’m an independent consultant and have been for about 5 years.</p>
<p>Some background. I worked for “Larry” starting 10 years ago. We worked together about 5 years until our company was shut down. I kept in touch with Larry over the years and about 3 years ago did some work as a consultant on a new project. This project was funded by “Ted’s” company. I never met Ted, and Larry was never able to get Ted to sign my contract, so when the project got canceled I never got paid for my work. Also on this project was “Dave” and a number of consultants who worked for Dave, both here in the US and offshore. Dave had a contract signed by Ted’s company, but was never paid for his or his workers’ time.</p>
<p>Last year Dave sued Ted’s company for breach of contract. Dave’s lawyer contacted me and I was able to give him a little information about the project. I recently spoke with Dave who told me that they settled out of court for about 25% of what Ted’s company owed him, and that he’s now in the process of suing Ted personally.</p>
<p>Ted has bounced around at various companies and is now a high-level consultant at a respected financial corporation. In the meantime Larry started up his own consulting company. Larry and I have been working together on a new project for the past several months. </p>
<p>Fast forward to the present. Larry was contacted by Ted and asked if he could supply consultants to this respected financial organization. Larry asked if I was interested in the work; I said yes and so Larry forwarded on my resume. I went through the interview process and met Ted face-to-face for the first time. I didn’t say anything about the work I did for his prior company. I don’t think he was even aware I was on the project. I also didn’t mention that I knew what was going on with Dave. Larry wants me to take the work because he sees it as a entree to placing more of his people at this organization.</p>
<p>The contract is mine if I want it. I’ve pretty much made my decision, but am curious about the collective wisdom of this forum. </p>
<p>Take the work, but make it clear to both Larry and Ted that nothing will be delivered or even begun without a signed contract in place. You do not have to tell Ted why, just say it is your policy that no work is done without a signed contract in place. Burned once, twice shy.</p>
<p>This does not sound like an ethics issue. Do you want to work for someone who has been dishonest in the past? Are you desperate for work and willing is take a chance on getting paid for the current work?</p>
<p>I don’t understand the ethical delimma. Are you concerned that Ted will behave dishonestly? If the work is good for you and you feel secure that you will be paid then you should do it. I would not mention the former situation to Ted, and if he ever brought up Dave (highly unlikely) I would not admit that I knew anything. There is no advantage to you to confront or discuss this with Ted.</p>
<p>I am also an independent consultant. Unless you are desparate for work, I would not take this contract. If you are desparate, do not do any work without the signed contract. You might pay to have an attorney review the contract just to make sure it is airtight, too, if you have concerns about getting paid – that few hundred dollars can pay off big time in a situation like that. If you can, make sure you have a notice clause (typical is 10 working days, either side can terminate with notice to the other) so you can get out if things are bad (people who are unethical in one area are often the same in other areas, you may find you can’t live with working for Ted even if you get paid…).</p>
<p>I am no businesswoman, but what comes to mind is the adage “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.” Unless you are desperate, I’d keep far away from a man who you know has reneged on his debt to you and others in the past.</p>
<p>Who would you be having this contract with, the financial firm or with Ted? If it’s with the financial firm, then take it and don’t say anything. If it’s Ted, then I would think twice. Ask Ted if you could sign the contract with the financial firm instead.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses so far. To clarify, I would sign a contract with Larry’s company and work through them, so they’d be on the hook to pay me. Larry would sign a contract with the reputable financial company, and has little risk that he wouldn’t be paid. </p>
<p>I trust Larry to pay me - we’ve had a professional relationship for 10 years and I don’t have any reason to doubt his word. I also know Larry’s company can pay me because I’ve referred some very large contracts to them this year and they’re doing very well as a result.</p>
<p>I disagree. If you met with Ted face to face, you will likely be reporting to him for that work. That raises a lot of red flags for me – if he was unethical in the past, he may very well want to cut corners in other areas besides payments. Nothing sucks more than a bad (esp. unethical) boss… it is very stressful, and can damage your reputation.</p>
<p>I am not familiar with the contract process, but if Larry ‘placed’ you with Ted before and you were not paid because Larry never got your contract signed then is Ted the bad guy or was Larry the careless guy? Did Larry’s other people get paid back then?</p>
<p>I know that you are trying to simplify this for the forum, but the paragraph makes me wonder if Larry or Ted was more at fault? Ted may view it as just a business failure, something that happens, 'you take your chances" in business etc. and not see it as sleezy behaviour. He may have an entirely different side of the story to tell. He may blame Larry (right or wrong, there are always two sides and often the real truth is somewhere in the middle)</p>
<p>I’m probably not in your field – but what would make me nervous would getting involved professionally w/someone who cut such big ethical corners before that he got sued. He may not stick you this time (since Larry is guaranteeing the pay) but if he does something else unethical in the biz world, you could be associated w/it, just be being in his employ. </p>
<p>I sort of would not want to get in the cloud of someone w/those ethical issues. You never know what the fall-out will be.</p>
<p>I worked briefly as a contractor for someone who was not diligent or skillful & I wondered a bit about his ethics. I realized that by associating w/him, I was risking damaging my own rep, just by proximity. I said no go to other invitations from him for future work. Not worth it.</p>
<p>It is unavoidable to have unethical people at work, if that’s the bench mark then I wouldn’t have any place to work. At least OP know who Ted is. If he is unethical at this new place, it doesn’t mean OP needs to behave as such, and he maybe found out at some point.</p>
<p>I was hired by someone who I considered to be sketchy. He was let go a year after he hired me. My reputation was not tainted by him and I didn’t do anything unethical.</p>
<p>An interesting drama. I’d avoid dealing with both Ted and Larry if I could help it. You stated you weren’t paid for work 3 years ago as a result of Larry’s dealings with Ted. I’m not sure why you were willing to do the work at that time without a signed (by Ted but through Larry somehow) contract but that obviously didn’t work out for you.</p>
<p>Now Larry’s dealing with the either unethical or incompetent Ted yet again but why would Larry even deal with Ted at this point? It doesn’t really make sense that Larry would even be talking to Ted any more or that Ted would be talking to Larry after the confrontation that should have happened 3 years ago when the contractors weren’t paid. Is it possible you weren’t given the complete picture of what happened 3 years ago and perhaps Larry was more involved than indicated? It sounds as if there’s more to the story you might not be aware of.</p>
<p>If you do decide to pursue this knowing full well the kind of people you’re dealing with at least make sure you have a very sound contract that would hold up well in court if you ever want to be paid. </p>
<p>Note - I’m just going on the bit of info you posted.</p>
<p>I would say Larry was a bit careless in not pushing my contract through when I did this work with him 3 years ago. It wasn’t a lot of work, I had time, I added to my technical skills, and I considered it to be doing Larry a favor. Live and learn - I won’t do that again without a signed contract, not for Larry or for anyone. Fortunately it wasn’t a very expensive lesson for me.</p>
<p>I did ask Larry point blank why he would consider working with Ted again, knowing that I hadn’t been paid and that David had sued him. His response was that he wouldn’t work with Ted if Ted was getting the financing, but since this new work would be through a reputable company there was no issue in his mind.</p>
<p>It’s certainly possible I don’t have the complete picture of what happened 3 years ago. I only have David’s side, my experience, and Larry’s chagrin that David didn’t get paid to go on. I don’t know Ted’s side. David, by the way, is supplying a number of consultants to Larry right now on the new work that I sent Larry’s way. And they’re getting paid. Networking is the name of the game here.</p>
<p>I haven’t added up the responses, but it seems to be about equally split between recommending that I do the work, and recommending that I don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.</p>
<p>You seem to have a good relationship with Larry and seeing as how he’s a buffer between you and Ted, I guess it wouldn’t be as much of an issue for me. But I go very much by the gut, and I think if YOU had a good feeling about it, you wouldn’t have posted the question here. My inclination then is that, unless Larry and Ted are big players you can’t risk turning down without jeopardizing future work, I’d probably still pass on this one.</p>
<p>Maybe I don’t understand but your first post says that even the guy with a contract with Ted did not get paid. That would be enough for me to turn down the work. He didnt pay Dave who had a contract, he didn’t pay Larry who didn’t have a contract. What assurance do you have that you will get paid this time around?</p>