Two ISIS followers behead a priest during mass in northern France.
There are so many now that a thread a day could be created to talk about them. The guy who blew himself up and injured 12 in Anspach, Germany. The guy who killed a pregnant woman with a machete in Germany. The machete attacker on the German train. I think all of these were so-called ‘refugees’.
^^ Yes, they were all refugees, which should be awake up call. However, it probably will not be a awake of call because fake narratives are stronger than facts.
But when I lived in France, attacks on Christians were rather frequent by the then new refugees - that was some 28 years ago. These attacks though were way less violent and more in the vein kicking and punching, often in public, and calling people dogs etc. And the French, weirdly, tolerated that. Never understood that passivity.
The believers of fake narratives clearly never had to deal with the leader/defender of said religion, Saudi Arabia, that told my company when we traveled there to make sure we had no openly gay employees, who would be subject to arrest, and that all women, who do not wear the traditional Islamic headdress when they are there, are subject to deportation. Also told point blank that no bibles were allowed to be in anyone’s possession. Not to mention that no passport could have an Israeli stamp in it - hence, we all had two passports, one with and one without. The other top five countries of that religion gave us similar restrictions.
With these fake narrative cases, the only way people learn is the hard way, which is happening with greater and greater frequency in Western countries. Europe is just beginning to get a taste of what fake narratives and passivity gets you.
As for the latest attack in Rouen, let’s wait for the lone-wolf claims and that they had no direct ties to ISIS, so it does not count.
I read that the priest had his throat cut, not that he was beheaded. Not that it’s any better really. I feel like we are back in the middle ages, the dark ages.
@TatinG - the German train attack was by a teenager who was born and raised in Munich. His parents were immigrants. I can’t remember if they were from Iran or Iraq.
Those French police - in some of the photos they have gear on in all black, over jeans, and black hoods that look like the kind robbers use. I wouldn’t think they were police! It’s all very frightening.
This is so sick.
One thing that strikes me - the machete attacker who killed his coworker had been in trouble with the law before and had been in trouble for “hurting people”. The main French attacker on the priest actually had an ankle monitor because he too had been in trouble with the law.
I think both countries will be building more prisons after this.
The WSJ has a good oped on this issue:
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The storm of terror that is descending on Europe will not end in some new politics of inclusion, community outreach, more foreign aid or one of Mrs. Merkel’s diplomatic Rube Goldbergs.
It will end in rivers of blood. Theirs or yours?
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True.
This is war, whether we like it or not.
The nasty thing about terrorism is that it is very difficult to control. Even the Israelis face it, even though they have been on a war footing since they came into being, even though they routinely retaliate for terrorist attacks, they still are faced with terrorism. There also the question that with retaliation, does that act as a deterrence or does it spawn more? (and I don’t want to debate that here, purely a question that cannott easily be answered).
I think Europe could learn from the Israelis in realizing that this threat is very real, and that they need to deal with it. I think Europeans (just from my impressions and reading ) assumed that this was going to be a replay of the 1970’s, when groups like the Red Guards and Beider-Meinhof (spelling?) in Germany had some dramatic instances of terrorism, bombings, shooting up an airport and so forth, which seemed to peter out over time. I think Europe saw the 1993 bombing in NYC as an isolated incident based in the US sticking their nose into the Middle East and therefore in effect blaming the US, I think they saw September 11th as more consequences of US activity, "it could never happen here’ and so forth…and now they are waking up that they are vulnerable, that they are viewed as the enemy, and that they no longer can pretend it doesn’t exist. Germany tried to take the high road with refugees, they thought by showing compassion and humanity it would get them gratitude, and what they found out is the gratitude that some felt didn’t change the attitude of others who still see them as the enemy.
I don’t know if this is a war or not, simply because I don’t know if the term war really applies. Wars have objectives, wars generally are with defined enemies and good guys, and this doesn’t really fit the bill. The problem with using the term war, like ‘war on terrorism’ is it implies that it is simple, you declare war on someone, you kill the ones doing it, and you snuff it out, and in the end there is a treaty (and I didn’t like that term from the get go). I think we have to come to realize that this is more like what we do in medicine with disease, that the diseases evolve, how they operate can change (for example, from history, plague going from bubonic to pneumomic forms). To me, you can innoculate (ie with terrorism, try to figure out why, for example, Muslims in a country like France are turning towards radicalism, and work on that), you can do what public health does with mosquito control and campaigns to get rid of bodies of water where they breed (rough analogy to intelligence on where terrorists are, who they are recruiting, and getting to them before they act), and you can retaliate after the fact as detterence, along with other things, it has to be multi pronged. I have heard politicians in the US say the war on terrorism is a long war, but in reality again war fails, because it can never end. Too many grievances, too many places to protect, it is a reality, not a war that will end per se. Again, I think that Europeans looked at the 1970’s terrorism (not unlike the US with groups like the SLA and Weather Underground) and said this too, shall pass, rather than seeing this is something different.
What scares me more than the terrorism itself is what it can generate. The kind of fear terrorism is generating can create the rise of fascism, a world where being different is associated with terrorism, and give power to people who don’t really care about terrorism but are more using it to get power,maybe absolute power. Among other things, that kind of response usually ends up, ironically, with an escalation of terrorism, only it becomes much worse because the iron fist of the fascist governemnt can create more terrorists then it eradicates …and the one thing it is going to take is global co-operation, which despite all the talk of information sharing, and coordination, likely isn’t the case at the moment. It is also going to mean solving problems like the Saudis, who on one hand claim to be our allies and such, yet who are out there supporting terrorism, whether it is giving money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel and elsewhere, or the radical Islam they support through state supported Islamic schools all over the world. It means finding a way to figure out Pakistan, which on one hand claims to be fighting terrorists, and on the other hand has an intelligence apparatus controlled by people who have close ties to the terrorists, and it is going to mean a massive intelligence operation at sophisticated tech users like ISIS, to break their communications network and disrupt their use of the net and social media. And that response cannot come from one country, it has to come from a bunch of countries sharing a common problem and working at it, it is the only way this can truly be dealt with. And no, I don’t think the UN can do it, I think the UN is a joke, I once had hope for it, but these days it can prevent nothing, and almost in many ways while it officially denounces terrorism, its membership often seems to see it as payback, rather than the threat it is.
Well one thing that would help IMHO is for those who leave a Western democracy to go “train” or “visit” or “study” in an ISIS-held, Wahhabist, El Shabaeb etc. territory to be stripped of any citizenship or access to the country they left. It’s the opposite of the Hotel California: you can check out any time you like, but you absolutely have to leave permanently. If you want to be a jihadi go be one but know that you will never, ever be allowed to come back to the land of the infidel and see your family (or collect benefits) in Minneapolis, Bradford, or Marseilles.
Also our government should not play footsie with Saudi Arabia and its elite sponsors of Islamist terrorism. It’s strange how much we demonize Iran when it’s SA that really sponsors the worst examples of what we fear.
Greenwich, the train attack was by a teenager from Afghanistan. That was definitely terrorism. (As was the guy who blew himself up with a bomb.) It was the McDonalds/shopping center attack in Munich that was by a 19-year old born in Germany to parents from Iran. Who chose to carry out his crimes on the anniversary of the Anders Breivik attack. Anyone counting what he did as Islamic terrorism – let alone suggesting that he was part of some coordinated attack on behalf of Isis – is the one pursuing a “fake narrative,” to quote awcntb’s latest talking point. There’s video of him during the attack insisting that he was “German.” People who knew him said he hated foreigners, especially Turks – as he said during the attack… Of the nine people he killed, at least three were from Turkey and at least three were ethnic Albanians from Kosovo. And, although I shouldn’t even have to explain this anyone, the fact that his background was Iranian means that he was Shiite, not Sunni – you know, Shiites, the ones that Isis hates. If anything, this is more like Columbine than a terrorist act, given the stories about his having been bullied, etc. But if it was “terrorism” at all, it was an act of right-wing terrorism.
As for the Syrian refugee who killed the pregnant Polish woman with a machete, I’m sorry, but where’s the evidence of terrorism, other than his refugee status? They worked in the same kebab shop. They knew each other. They had an argument. People said he was “in love with her.” He was known to be violent before. What do we usually call that, unless the killer is Muslim? Not terrorism. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/24/syrian-refugee-kills-woman-with-machete-in-southern-germany/
There’s enough real Islamic terrorism in Europe without counting acts that clearly weren’t.
Sorry, so many bad thing have been happening, I got them confused.
And it is not a war of false lone wolves and disgruntled individuals, it is a war revolving what people believe in re societal standards and how they choose to live (see article below). At least, the French president has the backbone and the intelligence to realize we are at war - now, let’s see if he follows through.
The most almost unbelievable stat I heard last night in a TV interview from a professor at the Marine Corps University, who teaches on fighting terrorism, is that outside of Iraq and Syria war zones there is a jihad attack every 83 hours somewhere in the world that successfully kills innocent people. That is the definition of a war on civilization by any standards.
Looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same - this article is like reliving my days in France. The fact that the French still let this continue without little repercussions for the individuals was applying to me then, and is applying to me now.
So much for this silly acculturation nonsense that so many fake narrative makers keep trying to sell. I just hope the French president and other European countries realize the War starts at the ground level by harshly punishing behaviors like this article explains, i,e, assimilate or deport.
And thank goodness for the internet for at least there are news outlets who are not burying this news like the article in the NYT times a year ago disputing that there are Muslim no-go zones in France and UK. It is so easy to lead sheeple into believing anything it seems because I still have the Paris map that the US Consulate gave me when I lived there and it clearly outlined where I and employees should NOT drive company cars - take a guess who lived in these areas. Even the French insurance company had areas where -get this - the insurance was not valid if the company cars got damaged in those areas. This was some 28 years ago and it has only gotten worse, not better, as those areas still exist today and are actually larger in size.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/26/young-muslims-threaten-nudist-bathers/
Re post #2: ISIS already claimed the church attack, aw. The Munich McDonalds/shopping mall attack seems to be the only recent one by a lone wolf.
http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015
There are 10,000 Americans murdered by guns a year? And how many people are killed by terrorists each year in Western Europe? How many Americans are killed by terrorists?
In the world outside of the war zone of Syria and Iraq, if there is a jihad attack every 83 hours on innocent people, that is approximately 100 attacks a year. That doesn’t seem like a high number to me.
Calling a mass murderer who is of Iranian descent “right-wing” is absurd. Whether or not the killer was Sunni or Shiite, it was still Islamic terrorism.
Many years ago, when I thought the news was too negative, I thought of starting a news network that only focused on positive happy stories even though I wouldn’t know how to start that type of business. It is even more necessary today. There is way too much death and destruction on TV. We need to focus on the positive.
An interesting read from a Thai professor on how social media (and IMO, the news) can create a self fulfilling prophecy.
Who knows if social media and the news are partly to blame for all of the volatility in the world, but it does make you wonder.
Seriously? By that standard, you would have to accept that James Holmes and the Columbine killers and so many others were Christian terrorists. In fact, there’s at least one story out there, from his parents, that this guy had converted to Christianity himself, as shown by his adoption of the first name “David.” See http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/munich-gunman-lured-victims-with-a-fake-offer-of-free-mcdonalds-meals#full (his parents “told police their son had possibly converted to Christianity but he was not, in any case, religious”);
But surely you can’t be that simplistic.
My main point was that it wasn’t “terrorism” in the first place. But if you insist that it was, then given his own proclamations (“I am German”) and the victims he chose, it was right-wing, nationalistic, xenophobic terrorism in the exact same way as the murders by his apparent role model Anders Breivik on the exact same date five years earlier. See https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1491877/munich-murderer-had-picture-of-norway-terrorist-anders-breivik-on-his-whatsapp-and-was-besotted-with-him/
The Anders Breivik’s of the world wanted to rid Europe of the Ali David Sonboly’s. Lumping them together is illogical. It’s like saying Micah Johnson was a skin-head because both groups hate the police.