When I went to college I picked schools based on my SAT score and the highest ranking I could get into that was drivable to the NE. With flights much cheaper now, the recent TO landscape change, and the demographic shift to warmer states, what was once less desirable is now coveted. So my question is, assuming multiple schools are a good fit for your child, how does one evaluate the reputation of school for the weight it will carry on a resume as the years progress? How much does admit % impact reputation? Recent investments, etc?
For example, University of Tampa, private, has @ a 25% admit rate, whereas Purdue, public, has @53%. As they aren’t compared together in USN (Tampa is regional, Purdue national), their business schools are the only comps in that rating, and there’s a clear winner - Purdue Daniels at #21, Tampa at #159, and yet the admit rates are quite different. (To complicate things, I can throw in other schools like Northeastern, whose reputation has clearly risen in 30 years, UTK, USCC, etc ).
Assuming your child likes multiple schools, equal price, distance, etc, how do parents advise their kids? Ranking, admit rate, historical reputation?
On a personal level, DS has a favorite so far, and I want to make sure we are advising him well. Updated for clarity to add: question is evaluating ROI not fit.
Some kids want a career in the geographic region where they grew up. There is no need for those students to pay $325,000 to attend a school across the country with a higher ranking. They will be able to land the same local internships and post-grad jobs from their local flagship state university in most cases.
Other kids want to make a big splash in NYC or DC or LA or some other big city far from home. Or they want to break into a specialized field like investment banking or music, where certain schools have an edge. For those students, a school with a national reputation in that area is more important.
But that isn’t based on any one ranking. The Ivy League schools are known by virtually everyone and at the top of most rankings, for example. After the very top schools with very high name recognition/strong brands (as a whole or in a particular area of interest), ranking becomes significantly less important in my opinion — particularly if a student plans on attending grad school.
If the student isn’t sure, I wouldn’t get too caught up in rankings but instead find a school that feels like a fit and has good offerings across the board.
A student that develops an interest in marine biology can aim for highly-ranked marine biology programs in grad school, for example. Students who graduate with generic biology degrees from schools in landlocked states like Indiana University can still pursue a PhD in marine biology at University of Miami.
It’s the other way around - reputation drives applications and leads to low admit rates. However, a few schools manage to bring in tons of applications through aggressive marketing tactics and have a lower acceptance rate than their reputation would suggest.
Major (does a school stand out for that major / career outcomes) and comfort!!
Rank in and of itself means little when you get on campus and in the end, you’re getting one job - and you are getting it, not the school.
Also, and not saying it’s not the right school for some kids (U Tampa over a Purdue), but reputationally, U Tampa and Purdue are not in the same hemisphere.
Agree, but why? Apologies for being obtuse, but am looking to quantify the factors because “reputation” is not static. Quality of professors? Research grants? Academics of students? Ex-missions to jobs/salary/grad school (is that available somewhere)? TIA
Is this not what test-optional did? Common app, no supplemental essays, and TO drives up applications and drives down admit %, appearing to raise the reputation of a school. Northeastern has been very successful in raising their ranking in these and other ways. And while schools like UTK are now very popular, did their academics improve the last 3 years or just their admit rate/yield?
Look at first destination surveys for the schools left on your list. You should be able to find salary data, top companies, and geographic locations. Here’s the link to Purdue’s: Purdue CCO. You can sort by college and specific major.
In addition to outcomes, do a deep dive into the 4 year plan of study for the intended major. Look at the depth and breadth of electives that are offered.
You can also look at industry partnership, research, what new construction is happening on campus (and is money being funneled into your child’s intended major), etc…
It’s hard to evaluate ROI as there’s many factors (obviously). But in my own opinion, and given how we have similarly applied the criteria for schools in the past (Eg SAT, GMATs, ranking, etc), I’d say the “old norm” might still be true. What do I mean?
Put this way, a balance of both reputation and ranking is what I would still personally use (old habits die hard) - but caveated with whatever you can to “eliminate” outliers - eg Northeastern (has been mentioned in the thread why ranking for this school has gone up lately).
So if my kid were the same as yours, and likes multiple schools, I’d think “what would others think, in general about these schools available to me”? I think you might get the gist - can be more specific and elaborate on examples but don’t want to deviate too much from your ROI question. (in essence, I’m adapting herd mentality of reputation/ranking - as to what specificity in ranking eg majors/program, well, again, as someone pointed out already, the school’s reputation usually may outweight the strength of “program/major” ranking, esp Ivies, Ivy+, top 30 schools etc) My 2c.
I think that ROI is very difficult, if not impossible, to measure. We know that college education results in higher incomes, but other than that, it depends of what return you are expecting -
specifically greater income potential, happiness and life satisfaction, multiple job offers, internship experiences, travel opportunities? Kids can and do succeed from many programs, regardless of the rankings, but I think that they do best when they do find “fit” and motivation to dig in, learn and take advantage of whatever opportunities exist for them.
This makes the process unique and individual and so only general information can be gleaned from things like rankings, beyond that, learn about the schools and choose what offers the most things that are important to you, and compare financial offers, then weigh it out.
It seems to me that the biggest question you are asking in your post is “how can I figure out how a school’s reputation will change in the future?”
I do think this is an interesting question. Over the course of the college search last year for S23, I definitely thought that some schools were investing in the right things, and were heading up and up in terms of quality and reputation. (Part of this also has to do with which academic fields they are strong in.)
However, I would try to take “admit rate” out of the picture entirely, because this isn’t the same as either academic quality or academic reputation. Admit rate just tells you how many students applied for the spots available. Students apply, or don’t apply, for all kinds of reasons that are unrelated or only distantly related to the academic strength and academic reputation of the school.
If you’re looking for ROI specifically, I think @momofboiler1’s suggestion to look at first destination surveys is a really good one, as well as the other suggestions in that comment.
If there are multiple likes, I’d suggest that the school with the most academic options is the best choice. Most students who intend to major in a particular field end up in a different major from the one originally intended. Schools that offer more flexibility provide a benefit that most students will need, but have no idea that they may need it when making their decision.
Problem with ROI is you can go for free (or very cheap) to a school like Bama and any return will be infinite or exaggerated but not reflective of total earning potential or academic preparedness. I would much prefer a perspective that considers absolute results across a totality of factors versus a matrix that can be distorted by being cheap (assuming you could afford to pay).
When choosing a school I want my kid to have an enriching experience and pursue areas of academic curiosity. I also would want them to have a wide variety of post grad opportunities, the highest earnings ceilings possible, the greatest safety net, strong alumni network etc.
Many of these factors are a function of the schools reputation and alumni network. I am not discounting the importance of financial fit but in my opinion it should be just one of many fit factors to be considered.
FYI most ROI studies do however place the Ivy plus schools at or near the top.
Admit rates are a terrible metric when picking a college. They (obviously) have both numerators and denominators, so they don’t capture the essence of a college other than some vague “this place is pretty popular but is geographically constrained so can’t build more dorms” measurement.
There are colleges like Missouri S&T (I have no idea what their current admit rates are) which are fantastic and rigorous places to get an education, and colleges like (fill in the blank with the flavor of the month) where it’s tough to get in but super easy to get out with a piece of paper stamped “Bachelor’s degree”.
If a kid has a favorite- why? That will be more revealing than anything else. If the favorite is affordable, offers academic rigor in the disciplines of interests, is there a problem just saying “here’s the choice”?