http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2015/02/27/388443923/a-glut-of-ph-d-s-means-long-odds-of-getting-jobs
So just bcs they get a phd, they expect a tenured faculty position? Entitlement mentality…
For many college (or even graduate) students, the best way for them to see whether the research /PhD track is for them is to let them have some first-hand experience with this.
Some years ago, a CCer posted here that his 1-year research experience (during his gap year after college) at NIH convinced him that he should not do research in the rest of his life.
All PhD students should be asking about job prospects before even thinking about committing to a place.
Reputable programs will post their post-grad statistics clearly on their website.
ETA: Grad students might also consider whether or not their students are unionized before committing. I’m incredibly grateful for the union representation at my grad school.
This is not new. See http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472276a.html .
Consider the numbers: each faculty member at a research university supervises (over his/her career) a few dozen graduate students to completing PhD degrees. That is obviously far more PhDs “produced” than needed to replace him/her when s/he retires. So the “excess” have to go places other than tenure-track faculty jobs at research universities: LACs (not many, since LACs are small), non-PhD-granting universities, community colleges, maybe even high schools, adjuncting, or industry. Only in some fields (e.g. CS) would industry happily vacuum up all of those excess PhDs. In some other fields (e.g. math, physics, economics), there may be industry jobs, but not necessarily in their fields (e.g. finance). But many other fields (including sciences) have few industry jobs willing to hire those PhDs.
You would have a weak professoriate if every PhD graduate could get a tenure-track job. A lot of people earn their PhD OK, but are not cut out to perform well as independent faculty.
Depends on which sciences, field of study, etc. when it comes to availability of industry jobs.
Romani, could you explain a little more about your Union for grad schools. Wondering what kind of things they help with.
D’s boyfriend is getting his PhD in engineering. He has no interest in academia but R&D in industry. He says he should have plenty of opportunities. I do have to say that grad school is not for the weak. Oh boy what a crazy ride it has been for him.
Our union does what all unions do- advocates on our behalf for better wages, benefits, etc. They represent all grad students employed by the university- GSIs (often called TAs at other schools), GSRAs (research assistants), etc. They ensure that we get relatively living wages (I think we’re currently paid an equivalent of about $26/hour depending on your FTE appointment), that we’re covered with health and dental insurance as part of our package, and that we have guaranteed increases of ~2% pay each year.
They also represent us in grievances. They ensure that we are paid for all hours put in- including prep time, office hours, etc. If we feel that we are being worked more than our contractual number of hours, we can file a grievance with them. Same if we feel that we were misclassified- ie as a “grader” but doing the work of a GSI.
Thanks romani. That was enlightening. I wonder if grad school unions are rare or common. Michigan is a big Union state so wondering how these things work in other schools. I’ve never heard of anything like this but then I know next to nothing about PhD programs.
I’m sure they’re relatively rare. U of M has the oldest one in the country IIRC.
It’s not a school’s best interest for their grad students to unionize… which is exactly why I’d encourage PhD students to strive for a unionized school. Yes, we’re relatively cheap labor, but at least we make enough to live which is more than I can say at many grad schools.
Romani–do you think the funded Phd students at U of M do better financially because of the Union? I have a son-in-law at UNC. He is in a funded doctoral program–gets free tuition and a stipend of 24K for the academic year. Also health insurance–covers my D as well. It would be difficult to live on that in Chapel Hill if my D didn’t work. But my son-in-law was more interested in looking for schools where he could work with someone on his area of interest than in the amount of the stipend. He’s in the social sciences so the competition was tough and he only had two choices.
Not necessarily better financially, although that is certainly one perk. It’s about being protected and empowered from predatory policies that often plague grad students.
^SUNY Buffalo has a graduate student union.
Hmmmm…one person’s concept of “cheap labor” is another person’s concept of yet another obligatory position to fund.
I’m beginning to get the idea that people think there is something wrong with competitiveness or pyramidal career tracks.
^ Several years ago, I heard the graduate schools at private universties are “behind” their counterparts at public schools in the union movement.
If I remember it correctly, there was even a law that prohibited the graduate students there from being unionized; that is, the law governing the graduate students at a public university is different from the law governing the grad students at a private university. I heard that the President Reagan sent the polices or even the troop to that “big bad” Berkeley (it “mellows” quite a bit now though) which tends to cause the troubles or headache for the established power. He should also have asked them to march into those elite privates like thos Panthers once did (and Yale did a better job than Harvard but it was “warned” beforehand, unlike Harvard) and because of doing so, it could help this kind of social movement sooner over there as well. Oops…better not to “bad mouth” THE Reagan. I could get myself in trouble here. Sometimes I feel that the students, not necessarily the faculty, at a private college is not as progressive as the students at a public college. Not likely due to the school though, due to the students and their upbringing - is this related: 40% of the graduates from Princeton UG end up in the finance industry, and I thought Princeton is relatively strong in engineering/sciences among ivies and in their social sciences and public policy (isn’t there a Wilson School of Public Policy there??)
Graduate students at the university where I work are unionized. It is good for collective bargaining on behalf of all grad students. However, I don’t think it prevents grad students from being underpaid. Filing an individual grievance against their professor or department would, in reality, be seriously burning bridges.
I think the adjunct may have a more dire need of unions.
I heard the grad students and the lower paid employees at DS’s college once teamed together in their protest. In one year, it became so bad that the university had to face the consequence that they could not feed all of their “prized” undergraduate students.
Occasionally, I feel that the university “prizes” (and “pampers”) their UG more than their grad students. It is true that UG students are younger and less mature and could need more attention and care. But, still …
When I was a grad student, we would say: Whenever you see a student driving a clunker, he must be a grad student. When he is droving a brand new or much newer car, he must be an UG student.
Also, a UG dorm is like a zoo. The grad student dorm, if any at all, is much quieter.
Of course it can’t prevent them from being underpaid, but it puts them in a much better position to fight it.
And yes, I realize it might burn bridges, but it is an option which is more than most can say.
Yes, mcat, adjuncts are in dire need of unions. Then again, I am firmly of the position that pretty much all jobs should be unionized.
Yes, the school (or any institute) should not be given unchecked power.
Look at how much damage the law schools have done to the livelihood of the students who pay a hefty amount of tuition to go there. They have little concerns about how their graduates will fare in the future when they keep pumping out so many graduates.