<p>A couple of other points on the specific incident - </p>
<ul>
<li><p>If a standup comic can’t handle a heckler appropriately and to their favor, what are they doing in that business? I don’t know if Richards’ has done much standup, but I think it’s pretty basic to standup - kind of ‘standup 101’. The ‘Seinfeld’ show even did several take-offs and had an entire show on the subject of ‘hecklers’.</p></li>
<li><p>It seems as if Richards didn’t just see a heckler and treat the heckling in the way he knows best, he saw a ‘Black’ heckler and personalized his assault in a very personal way to that individual. The heckler himself was right when he said ‘that was uncalled for’.</p></li>
<li><p>I agree with the other poster that said that this sort of takes something away from watching ‘Seinfeld’ reruns from now on.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>By the way, HH, since you’ve chosen to interpret my “protest too much” comment in a way other than I meant it…I was not implying that you were a racist, homophobe or bigot.</p>
<p>I was implying that your refusal to rationally discuss these issues and your retreat into name-calling and wild exaggeration when they are raised suggests that you may be more uncomfortable with the religious right’s track record relative to these issues than you let on. </p>
<p>To give an example that you may be more familiar with: I heard in a sermon once that the people who complain the most about not wanting to be prostilitized to are secretly hungry for God in their lives and not yet ready to admit it, even to themselves–hence the “protesting too much” resistence. </p>
<p>I suspect that you’re probably a lot more uncomfortable with what the Bob Jones Universities of this world represent than you let on. Hence the hypervigilience (and hyperdefensiveness) whenever anything is raised that even remotely approaches the topic.</p>
<p>LOL, HH, you jump on every thread regarding homosexuality, gay marriage, the teaching of sex ed in schools (your pet peeve), and anything remotely related to Christianity, particularly sure that people are in some way attacking your religion or closely held doctrines.</p>
<p>If anyone should admit her biases, it would be you (tho I won’t be holding my breath). :)</p>
<p>“Since my (and the dictionary’s) basic definition of the good ol’ h,r,b differ from yours and most others posting here, there is no basis for discussion on this topic.”</p>
<p>hh, I replied specifically to your dictionary definitions in my post #54, and in fact agreed with the dictionary definitions. Your own (and the dictionary’s) definitions contradict what you say. Why have you not responded to post #54?</p>
<p>I don’t have the time or interest to follow threads about colleges, kids’ accomplishments, recipes, travel, personal anecdotes, etc. etc. I did do one post on the breastfeeding thread today. I hope that passed muster with you.</p>
<p>I happen to follow this because it has become of interest to me, starting with the outrageous comments mini and others posted about Catholicism. I must say I was often taken aback by the blatant bigotry. Your bias of choice is toward “fundamentalists.” I’ve tried not to get personal with you AM, but I’ve given you every chance to apologize for the “fundy” term, for example, and you have not. That tells me something. </p>
<p>As I OPENLY stated weeks ago, the only reason I stay on this board is to defend my religion. I decided I won’t sit by while you and others malign it. I’m sorry if you don’t approve. I personally think the way you make stereotypical comments about some groups of people is appalling. </p>
<p>And yes, my religion has been blatantly attacked, many times, on this board.</p>
<p>If it was just the N word alone, well, thiongs slips, it was the rest of it that was so awful</p>
<p>As for religion, well, I get worried when Bush appoints a guy with a very political agenda and a very fundamentalist religious agend, when that guy is put in charge of “family planning”</p>
<p>even the Vatican is wondering about condoms and how there might be some times when they are okay…it is a small step, if even a step, but it is at least a discussion</p>
<p>" it was just the N word alone, well, thiongs slips, it was the rest of it that was so awful"</p>
<p>Things slip? Sorry, but I don’t think that words like the “n” word slip during a comedy act unless a person routinely says the word or thinks the word. Even if he’d stopped at saying the “n” word once, that still would have been offensive.</p>
<p>I’m baffled at the below. Looks to me like Richards is tossing his money away in a muddle headed ploy to salvage his career. Whom he needs to publicly apologize to is the heckler, not Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, who weren’t even there. Interestingly, the crisis management publicist also is white, something I learned after using Google’s image sectiion and Googling the man’s name and “publicist.” </p>
<p>"LOS ANGELES - Michael Richards is doing damage control.</p>
<p>(AP) – In the aftermath of his racist tirade against two black hecklers during a standup comedy routine, Richards on Wednesday hired a publicist with strong ties to the black community who set up calls to the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.</p>
<p>New York publicist Howard Rubenstein took on Richards as a client, then arranged for the actor to call the black leaders.</p>
<p>Michael apologized profusely, Rubenstein said. He wants to heal the tremendous wound that hes inflicted on the American public, and on the African-American community. … I think it was a positive discussion.</p>
<p>Jackson said Richards called expressing his remorse and his confusion.</p>
<p>Hes embarrassed. He got caught on tape. Thats a big part of his anxiety now, said Jackson.</p>
<p>Clearly he needs some race sensibility training, and some psychiatric help. His anger is volatile and dangerous to himself and others, Jackson said. I hope he gets the help he needs. But the culture thats producing this kind of animosity toward blacks must be addressed. … Were increasingly facing cultural isolation in Hollywood, in the movies and in TV.</p>
<p>Did anyone see the Today Show when two of the “hecklers” were interviewed?"</p>
<p>Someone who saw it told me that the two black guys were not the ones to start the exchange. As they explained it, they were part of a large group (about 15 people) who arrived late to the show, and Richards was already on stage.</p>
<p>Richards apparently found their efforts to get settled in and place their drink orders with the waiter disruptive, and made some comments about their (multicultural) group, along the lines of “stupid blacks” and “stupid Mexicans,” or something like that. It was only after a few of those kinds of remarks that one of the guys shouted “you’re not funny,” and then the tirade began. </p>
<p>If this is what was said on the show, it’s interesting that the media hasn’t explored this angle, which would make what Richards did even worse. Bad as what he did was, it is amazing to think that the full story may be worse.</p>
I certainly admit I could be projecting here. But I say what I have said because I see a rather chronic system of racism in America and know for a fact it influences my thinking toward whites. I have definitely thought some seriously bad thoughts when awful things have happened to me at the hands of whites. I didn’t really think I had much choice about it. I think when whites suffer at the hands of blacks, and especially when they see trash talking black thugs on the evening news (which the news seems to love to display) they probably do the same thing.</p>
<p>In my early college years, for example, I worked during the summers cutting and laying sod. It is pretty back breaking work, and I had done it for several years. Often I would cut the sod, roll it, stack it, load it, ride with it to some location, lay it, go home and totally collapse until the next morning, upon which I would awaken, and do the whole thing again. In many of the cases of my work, I would find myself as some white person’s house, often newly built, and hear some of the most virulent racism. I mean, it was too frequent, and it took place as if I wasn’t even there. Once I had worked all day laying sod at this very nice place. I started at the house and worked until I eventually found myself atop of an incline, a good ways away from the house. As I worked, some guys, about my age came out and started trash talking and making fun. They were pretty far down the incline, but I could hear them just fine. Maybe they didn’t think I could, I just don’t think they cared, but I do know they had little regard for me or my feelings and it was clear they thought little of me because of my race. Their parents were right there, and just laughed or said nothing about it. Finally, I start hearing a lot of laughter, shortly following by reports of a rifle. Then with those reports, I could hear the whistle of bullets get closer and closer to me. Those guys were shooting at me and laughing. This sort of thing, at least the essence of it, was pretty regular, and many blacks alive today have experienced it. It is one of many reasons why I despise the South. But I have reason to think it takes place in the North too, albeit in a perhaps less overt form.</p>
<p>I don’t think I have a lot of choice when it comes to this stuff. Well, okay, I guess I always have a choice, but it doesn’t seem that prudent to me to think most people are going to be like you when it comes to race. I do believe most of them are like Richards. And it is not like they don’t have at least some reason for their fear and anger. It is just that they are being suppressed. But when they get under the right pressure, or in the right circumstances, it comes out. We see it in the frat houses of our schools, in our neighborhoods when some black guy comes near, in bars and restaurants that refuse to serve blacks, in country clubs, in companies. It is everywhere, and because of it, I certainly think these harsh thoughts, especially when this stuff happens to me. I cannot help but suspect this stuff happens because many, probably most, Americans are pretty much like this Richards guy. He seems convinced he is not a racist, and I don’t think he is – not in the KKK sense of the word. He seems pretty surprised at how that stuff leaped out of him. I think it leaped out in the same way it leaps out of everyday Americans all the time.</p>
<p>Hey – Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you and your family will have a warm and loving time today.</p>
If that happened, then it does put a different color on the thing. It means that Richards wasn’t really provoked, but was instead being a racist of the KKK sort, harboring hatred of other races and being aware that his hate is right on the immediate surface of his psyche. The odd thing is that this guy is Jewish, I think. If so, then it is pretty weird that he talked about what “they” were doing to blacks fifty years ago, when “they” were baking Jews in ovens and spraying them with gas at about the same time.</p>
<p>well, dross, I’m sure he has a few choice words for the germans too. The human heart is filled with darkness. not simply the american heart. individuals are weak and so we are desperate to identify with groups. groups are defined by what group they are not, that is, other groups. (I just saw Borat last night. Please take a look at that portrait of america.) christians should understand this weakness leads to the worst behavior, this panic to belong . I wish we could dispense with historical identites and just know ourselves from within. I thought the american project was somewhat to obliterate tribal identity.( I am thinking of poetheart’s lament). But there is a lot of good that happens within this veil of tears, as well you know.
And it should mean something that I would gleefully destroy anyone who harmed you.(i.e.those shooters,… hell, I’m no christian)</p>
<p>Shouldn’t you be whipping up some culinary oddity that everyone returns home to re-experience? I know it’s not fried ice-cream season but I imagine you are known for some beloved kitchen concoction. What could that be?</p>
Yeah! We’re all set. My wife and I finished all the typical Thanksgiving stuff last night and have it cooking on the hob as I type this. Already we have tons of guests, kids from my daughter’s school, neighbors, family members. I tend to get drained from crowds, so I am just taking a little breather before I plunge back into them.</p>
<p>I have this thing I do each year and it is on already. It should be ready in a coupla-three hours. I brine a turkey for a day, rub it inside and out with crushed garlic, then stuff it with this special stale-bread stuffing that comes straight from the Neatherlands (I have Dutch relatives, don’tcha know!). Then I skewer it and put it on a rotisserie – the whole bird, stuffed and all. Oh my! It is so alien!</p>
<p>Dear friend, I especially wish you a very warm Thanksgiving.</p>
<p>I think if it were going to “leap out” of me, it would have done it when I was 23 and had my face slashed by a burglar holding one of my own kitchen knives. The race of the burglar isn’t the point, but given his race, if anything were going to “leap out” of me, that incident (or its aftermath) would have been the time. </p>
<p>And if it’s not in me, who probably heard the word ten jillion times growing up, even from teachers, it’s probably not in a plethora of folks.</p>