As for old tests, speaking from the places I previously taught, it was a two-fold issue: one, did they already have a previous stated policy on old tests, and two, an issue of parity. So, say a student is a transfer and doesn’t have the ability and/connections to obtain some sacred old test? From the instructor perspective one of the primary responsibilities is to try and create a level playing field for every student in the class.
Normally, when one uses the bad acts of members of group X to suggest that there is something wrong with all members of group X, it’s called prejudice, bias or racism.
The non-Greeks on here continue to be tone-deaf to the concept that one chapter has very little to with another chapter, and one national organization has little to do with another organization.
I used study files - I still remember the cabinet they were in, in the “typing room” where we kept our electric typewriters so we could type at all hours and not bother others (how vintage!) and I don’t have one iota of regret. I STUDIED off them, didn’t cheat off them. My sorority sisters include incredibly smart and accomplished women. Sorry, I am not going to be tarred with a brush I don’t deserve.
You’re making the files seem a bigger deal than what they were. I remember one file cabinet and if you were so inclined, you could file a returned test in there vs throw it out. If you forgot or threw it out instead, no big deal. The policy was that returned tests were fair game. Nothing prevented you from giving a old test to your non-Greek friends or non-Greek roommates taking the class next year. (And of course everyone HAD non-Greek friends or non-Greek roommates, because it wasn’t as though you could only talk to people in your house.) Obviously there were many classes where this wasn’t even applicable - theater majors, etc. Really.
I was in a very small major (fewer than 15 students per year) and we kept official test files in our office. Really, don’t overdramatize this into “cheating ring for slackers.”
To preface, I am not in a Greek organization. I have friends who are and friends who aren’t. Many on here are simply biased against Greek life in general, and try to rationalize their prejudice with pointing out atrocities committed by members (which are certainly atrocious, but not usually representative of the group as a whole, and are things committed by many students outside of Greek life). This likely stems from a lack of actual exposure to the whole of Greek life and those a part of it, but instead only to certain activities associated with it (you don’t know what it’s like in a house, or who the actual members are on a personal level, but you do hear plenty of stories about parties, etc. and so judge based solely on that information). The particularly vehement posters also likely don’t share the interests of those who typically join Greek organizations– if you detest partying, despise alcohol, and/or have moral issues with other aspects deemed central to social life in the Greek scene, you may decide not to actually talk to members and instead base everything you believe on faulty or partial information.
Anyway, I agree that in some cases action must be taken against the entirety of a group. If a fraternity as an organization repeatedly violates university regulations, its status must be revoked, and its membership disbanded. Meanwhile actual crimes (beatings, sexual assault, incitement to commit crimes for the purposes of gaining membership) should be the realm of law enforcement alone and universities should have no jurisdiction in criminal cases except to facilitate the intervention of external investigative or legal bodies. However, I disagree that fraternities themselves are problematic and that Greek life in general should be targeted for punishment (that is not to say it shouldn’t be closely monitored). Additionally, those who state that fraternities “add nothing” to college life are simply incorrect. They may add nothing of value to your college experience, but who are you to determine what others can find pleasure in? College is not just an academic experience. It’s also a social one, and social organizations have a rightful place in the framework of undergraduate life.
I strongly agree that more efforts should be taken to address criminal acts committed by students against others, and we should also work toward diminishing exclusivity and harmful practices such as hazing in Greek life, as those fixtures DO significantly detract from the college experience of other students. But many of you posters would do well to realize how Puritanical and self-righteous you come across, and to stop behaving as if you know what’s best for every other student. Reducing harm within social organizations, not depriving all students of those groups, is a better policy for improving university life.
I don’t speak for anyone else but myself. But, as both a person who experienced overt racism while in my own college days, but moreover incidents involving my own daughter at the hands of a fraternity, and on a fraternity property, I have a distinct and biased view. I’m unapologetic. But be certain, this is not ideology, this is derived from my own intersection of life with said entities.
“. The particularly vehement posters also likely don’t share the interests of those who typically join Greek organizations– if you detest partying, despise alcohol, and/or have moral issues with other aspects deemed central to social life in the Greek scene, you may decide not to actually talk to members and instead base everything you believe on faulty or partial information.”
I don’t like loud parties and much prefer quieter more intimate low key groups. I rarely drink (maybe a few glasses of wine a year), despise beer, and probably only drank to excess 2-3 times in college. I wouldn’t have stood for hazing of any sort. I had a boyfriend and only infrequently attended frat parties. I loved Greek life.
Being in a sorority was easily the best part of my college experience. Many years later we all still keep in touch on Facebook and get together when we can. It was 100% positive for me and it seems petty and spiteful for others to want to take that away. If there is abuse, punish the abusers and that’s all.
I’m sure there are many clubs and organizations with racist members. Well, they should kick 'em out. And if a club is pervasively racist, then the university should shut down that particular club. But not shut down, you know, every club on campus.
And there are assaults in dorms across the country all the time. Plus they are all full of alcohol and drugs. Hey, let’s abolish the dorm system. Then we won’t have any more dorm-related crime. Problem solved!
When they came for the fraternities, I did not speak up, because I was not in a fraternity!
Any organization set up as socially exclusive needs to expect backlash if they make some bad headlines.
If the local Masonic lodge or American Legion left litter and vomit outside their buildings on a regular basis, I’d expect them to generate some heat too. Keep it up, and the city would shut them down.
If our local Elks or Rotary club made headlines for trashing a resort, same thing.
They don’t.
So … if the system gets squeaky clean, nobody’s going to hate on it. Until then, every 911 call paints another ring on the bull’s eye. That actually seems kind of fair.
I assure you we didn’t leave litter and vomit outside. So why should I be tagged with those who did?
One of my S’s recently graduated from a school that @pizzagirl is quite familiar with. He told me yesterday that, much to his horror, his fraternity has been put on probation for the first time in it’s history. (The fraternity historically has the highest GPA on campus of any group.) They had a party (!) of the “non-registered” variety and someone let in one particular outsider who was known to cause trouble. That was absolutely a mistake. Then a young woman’s coat was gone when she went to retrieve it. So, she called the police, which she had a right to do. The police came, the party was “busted,” and down came the probationary period from the University.
My son’s only comment was that before she called the police, if she had just told one of the fraternity brothers, they would have handled it and found her coat. Of course, it was the “bad apple” who was let into the party who stole the coat. He’s been suspended. Trying hard, with a number of others, to keep people from painting all fraternities with a broad brush. As I’ve said before, absolute no hazing permitted at this frat, and none tolerated.
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I assure you we didn’t leave litter and vomit outside. So why should I be tagged with those who did?
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You shouldn’t, because it isn’t fair. But the greek system sells itself as one system, and every negative headline is seen in that light.
It can change: as late as the 80’s men and women in uniform had a generally thin time on several campuses. Fast forward 30 years, and the perception has largely been changed.
Can the greek system do something similar? I think so. Will it? Let’s wait and see.
It most certainly does not. Everyone (as in, everyone who actually knows anything about greek life) is very aware that every chapter of every fraternity/sorority on a given campus is going to be different (and sometimes very different) on every other campus. Sororities operate very differently from fraternities; always have, always will. Yes, if you pledge Alpha Beta Gamma you are officially a sister/brother to every other ABG on any other campus but the reality is that the “culture” will be different from yours at every other campus.
Thank you, joblue. You took the words out of my mouth.
One reason why those outside of greek life may view it as “one system” is because when greek organizations are publicly advertised they are done so in collaborations with other organizations. For example, on my campus, the largest and most public events we have are those that are open to the public and ran by greek organizations or open to other greek organizations where greek organizations compete against each other. Frequently, those who are running the event are a group of greek organizations. Also, fraternities and sororities may have partnerships with each other. So from the outside looking in, it may seem as though greek organizations are hand-in-hand with each other, doing as everyone else does, when it’s truly not the case.
@Pizzagirl my cousins’ professor changes tests every year! both my cousins had him in successive years and he gave different tests both years. cant really cheat like that now. but with this kind of thing, you cant really prevent it. it doesn’t just happen in fraternities/sororities - it even happens in high school. people ask me all the time to borrow my old tests and quizzes and I always say no cause its not fair to me that they got this stuff from me and now get A’s in classes in which I didn’t.
I’m still stuck on a person who would call THE POLICE because she couldn’t find her coat at a party…
^^^
Really, I was thinking the exact same thing.
Seems like the teachers are too lazy to make new tests.
Isn’t a suspected theft generally considered a police matter? According to the story in reply #51, it actually was stolen.
Of course, the fraternity made at least two mistakes: having an unregistered party (presumably against the rules requiring registration of parties), and letting in the apparently-known “troublemaker” / thief.