S’s house got put on probation because there was a small fire (accidental, not related to a party or anything - I think it was related to wiring but not sure) and when the fire dept got there and went to check it out, they noticed a small baggie of pot some kid had in his room, and the kid wasn’t smart enough to have kept it in a dresser. I’m ok that the u put them on probation for it and I also am not in the least bit concerned about a little bit of pot.
pizzagirl, your S’s issue is really the point I was trying to make about calling law enforcement. There is no reason for the entire organization to be on probation. Deal with the one kid with the legal system.
It’s just like the increase in autism rates - it doesn’t confirm a growing problem, it confirms that finally people are taking such occurrences seriously and reporting them.
As for calling law enforcement, that is step one. If it is one person with no “aiding or abetting” in an organization, there is certainly no reason to punish or ban an organization. Each Greek organization should have their own rules about what to do if a brother or sister has been arrested for whatever reason.
Unfortunately there are more than a few cases were more than one member of a fraternal organization was accused in an incident, and I would expect a university to put such an organization on probation initially pending investigation.
It all comes back to colleges should educated, and leave law enforcement to law enforcement officials. Everyone is tired of these issues being swept under the rug, either ignoring the victim’s or the accused, or both’s, rights.
At Us like my S’s, where the fraternity houses are owned by the U, the rules are stricter than for the U’s dorms. If there is a drug or alcohol or vandalism violation, the entire chapter is subject to discipline. Unlike in the dorms, where only the particular students who violate the rules are subject to discipline.
My fraternity experience, 40 years ago, is a treasured experience. Society changed, the Internet got invented, the drugs changed and the pin ball machines are now called adult video games. Why are some colleges asleep at the wheel? Not only did Penn State management turn a blind eye to assistant football coach a few years ago; today is reported that they ignored a fraternity whistle blower in a current fraternity case. All bad guys must stop and go to jail, immediately.
@xiggi I’m not sure I understand your question, but I’d like to answer it if you’d clarify. Are you asking me what faulty assumptions I’m referring to, or are you implying that I made many faulty assumptions in my post?
^^^
The entire part of the post I quoted represents a series of assumptions. For someone who seems to criticize others for having opinions based on lacking information or ignorance, you surely counter with much of the same. You are purporting that people who find faults in Greek life are either ignorant or have profound aversions to drinking or partying, or happen to have a different moral compass.
Rest assured that there are “vehement” posters who happen to be none of those things, and still find the egregious --and tolerated if not condoned-- behavior by fraternities appalling. Just as they find the lacking response from spineless college leaders!
@xiggi You seem intelligent enough to know the difference between faulty, baseless assumptions and assumptions formed from experience. Mine were the latter. I based all my assumptions on posts I’ve seen before. Furthermore, I never said all CCers opposed to Greek life had the characteristics I listed, or that everyone who dislikes Greek life wants to see it destroyed. But based on the vast majority of threads like these that I’ve seen, many of the vocal posters hate Greek life because they dislike drinking, noise, and often say that college is “an [exclusively] academic institution,” as if that should preclude students from also enjoying non-academic activities (this is accompanied by a significant amount of hypocrisy, as these same CCers likely enjoy plenty of extracurricular activities). One thread, for instance, dealt with how fraternities should be banned because many posters didn’t “see the point in them,” as if their individual opinions were somehow meritorious enough to decide what social outlets were appropriate for people they don’t even know. One poster was disgusted with Greek life and colored all its members stupid because a fraternity set up a foam/bubble machine and let students run around in it. This was a non-alcoholic event in broad daylight, open to everyone. He felt that fraternities should be banned because apparently other people having innocent fun was a tremendous inconvenience to his life.
My concerns weren’t that we’re holding Greek organizations and their members accountable for criminal offenses (I definitely agree that we should), but that CCers tend to express some serious disdain for Greek life as a whole, due to its connections to partying, drinking, and other related activities. This is unfortunate, as it results in many posters conflating their desire to solve the issue at hand (sexual assault) with their desire to punish the Greek system. I don’t think this is always petty or mean spirited, and I’m sure many do honestly believe that destroying Greek life is the only way, or at least the most effective way, to prevent sexual assault and other criminal activity. However, this is misguided, and I do not agree that “Greek life” is a problem in and of itself, though there are certainly plenty of real, undeniable problems within it that deserve thorough investigation and debate.
Tl;dr– many CCers detest Greek life because they dislike drinking/partying/exclusivity/whatever, so they rush to use the system as a scapegoat for every ill (especially high profile ones like sexual assault) and throw the baby out with the bathwater. I made no faulty assumptions, as they were based on a wealth of information on this forum, which is tremendously biased against Greek life. I also didn’t suggest that everyone who dislikes Greek life is vindictive, or that it’s inherently wrong for anyone to find it distasteful or even immoral. It is also commendable to try to identify and fix problems within organizations like fraternities, especially if they’re resistant to investigation. What IS wrong, however, is trying to remove a system that serves a number of very valuable purposes for a great many students simply because one doesn’t personally identify with it. Hope I answered your question.
@MedBound17 Z While you address a wide array of issues, I would be curious to the fact or the rationale on why thee Greek system is basically uninsurable and the 6th most volatile activity to insure in the nation? Does that not seem a bit odd–to have a university based social organization, that presents more insurance exposure than toxic waste? Seems a tad incongruent…
Medbound, you merely added more variables to your previous assumptions. You appear to be intelligent enough to understand repeating the same argument does not make it true.
I think it’s fair to ask how many serious problems have to occur at fraternities before we can ask whether there is something inherently wrong with the typical fraternity system. Maybe it’s biased reporting, but I read WAY more reports of problematic events at fraternities than I do at any other kind of campus organization, including sororities.
By analogy, it doesn’t take scandals about fake courses at very many colleges before we start to wonder if there is something inherently wrong with the way football programs are being run at colleges.
By the way, those of you who think we shouldn’t judge one fraternity (or chapter) for the sins of another, try to be consistent and not tell us about the great charitable work your chapter did.
Serious question: is there a national fraternity that never or almost never has serious problems at any of its chapters? If there is such a fraternity, how was that achieved? Similarly, is there a sizable college with a big Greek system that never or almost never has serious problems at any of the houses on campus? Again, how was that achieved?
boolaHI, you keep saying fraternities are uninsurable, but I know all the chapters of my sororities have insurance on their properties (some owned by private house boards, some owned by the universities). I do not have to have extra insurance for either of my kids’ sororities. Which chapters are uninsured?
Per post #14, above, only about 1% of chapters “got in trouble” this year, many of them involving alcohol or underage drinking, which may or may not be considered “serious” by many people. Does 1% count as “almost never” having serious problems? If so, then as a whole, the Greek system is doing pretty well.
If it’s really true that the blame goes to a few bad apples, why are there repeat offenders? Why not kick them out permanently, and end the drumbeat of criticism?
What I mean is, why don’t fraternity chapters with repeated problems get shut down by their national organizations more often? Why do they put up with the bad behavior?
It probably depends on what the “bad” behavior is, and what the most appropriate punishment is. If there is an incident involving only one member, and no one else knew about it, it doesn’t make sense to shut down the entire chapter permanently.
Actually, problem chapters do get shut down by their national organizations on a fairly regular basis. Most NIFC fraternities follow a similar process. If an individual chapter gets in trouble for a relatively minor offense (underage drinking, unsanctioned parties, “wet rush” etc.), the national organization will usually be content to let the university dole out whatever punishment it deems appropriate. If the chapter engages in serious misconduct, like hazing or sexual assault, the national organization will come in and conduct a “membership review.” Essentially, the national organization will interview every member of the chapter to determine who, if any, get to stay and who gets kicked out. In some cases, the national organization will determine the chapter’s problems are so pervasive that it will impose the death sentence - shutting the chapter down and recolonizing in 3-4 years when most if not all of the old chapter members will have graduated.
I also want to address the statement BoolaHI made regarding fraternities being self-insured. It is true that fraternities are one of the most expensive risks to insure and have been for several decades. However, most NIFC fraternities do not “self-insure.” Instead, the majority of NIFC fraternities have joined together to form the Fraternity Insurance Purchasing Group, a type of risk pooling agreement that is also common with smaller municipalities and utility districts. There may be one or two organizations that are truly self-insured as that term is used in the insurance industry, but most NIFC fraternities are not.
