<p>Having experienced college classes, I will say that public or not, you will still have big classes if you decide to take intro lvl courses like 100-200 lvl. Almost every university shows a ratio like 14:1. I think that is an absurd statement, as intro lvl courses can hold upto 600 students…a private might have 200. So I really don’t see why entering internationals should have misguided expections their first year from a private university. Still, I would say that in both public and private unis, your classes thin out as you pursue higher lvl courses. At times, you may even get to 6-20 students in both types of schools. Also, if someone wants attention, they just have to introduce themselves to the professor and share with them their concerns for the class. Private and public prof are quite alike in that they are just human and they will not say ‘no’ if you ask for help.
On the topic of spoonfeeding—Whether it may it be purdue or even caltech…no professor will actually badger you to succeed. It’s your choice. The point is: private universities will make an even bigger deal of leaving you to your own abilities. You guys actually think that the counseling they provide really help? Baha. Their counseling is the same as a public. In fact, you’ll meet equally hard teachers at a private when compared to Cal or any other top public, and they will grade even harder. Their curves will be low because they expect a ton from their students. Take for example university of chicago and university of michigan-ann.
@imthatguy: I would though disagree with the funding. Due to the recession…California schools are receiving less funding; wheres, privates like Caltech are maintaing their funding. Caltech is one of those schools that offers full financial aid based on need/merit. Cal does not do that for internationals. Also if Caltech and Cal are funded equally…as you previously mentioned----Caltech would be at an advantage because it has less students…so more money for the students and their facilities.
I would agree with mystic that you need to wait till schools start and then make an assumption of what Cal has to offer. From the outside, all things seem cheery…but the truth can be said once you’ve experience the uni. I don’t mean to offend Cal or any other top public…in fact I go to one…but there are just some infrastructure things that you need to understand before commending a school so thoroughly. It’s not like you will love everything Cal has to offer…and the same thing goes to private schools.</p>
<p>
Well, you’d know better about about saying stuff you hardly have any knowledge about:
Self contradictory, much? 
If you reserved your perception after saying that, it’s only logical to believe that I reserved my opinion on what’s it like at Berkeley too. We’re still talking general stuff.
At the very least, I’ve done loads of research about my school. Wonder what you’re basing your two cents, about how the top public university in the world sucks, on, since you’re hardly related(let alone attending :P) to Cal. I’m sure you’ll love it at CalTech because you’ve already convinced yourself that private > public, or else we wouldn’t be having this discussion anyway. That claim however is subject to a lot more scrutiny and ‘mysticism’, because if I were to come down to academic brass tacks, *arguably<a href=“because%20I%20expect%20you%20to%20leap%20on%20this%20one”>/i</a> Cal would be the better school of the two:</p>
<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs | Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate)</p>
<p>Friendly Cal jibes on a platter for you, Sire. 
But oh well, I’m not one to diss other schools solely on the basis of my perception, unlike other ill informed people on this thread 
, and it is my inherent belief that there is very little to choose between any of these top schools because on any given day, they’re almost as good as each other.
It would be very presumptuous on my part to dismiss the argument that Cal can improve. Yes, no doubt it can. But by the same logic, which school can’t? Every university can and is improving. I believe every college to be an evolving ecosystem, wherein there are good things and there are things which can be improved upon. This can be subjective of course.
As for the budget cuts, agreed they are quite an issue for Cal but inspite of these problems, it continues to thrive, which is definitely commendable. It may seem on the outside that the funding at Cal has gone down, but the amount of financial aid given out by Cal solely is more than all the Ivies combined.
[Facts</a> at a glance - UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://berkeley.edu/about/fact.shtml]Facts”>By the numbers - University of California, Berkeley)
So, though Berkeley may not hand out FULL financial aid, it definitely makes up for it by offering more people (>85%) financial aid.<br>
As for internationals, Cal offers need based financial aid from second year onwards.
But still, the budget cuts are something which the university can really improve on, I agree.
As far as waiting-till-I-get-there is concerned, I do reserve my opinion on the subjective bits about how I find the student community, difficulty of classes et al. but as for facts based stuff, I don’t see any reason or element of doubt to believe that Berkeley is in anyway inferior to any private school. Frankly, it’s very straightforward.
I might alter my opinions once I get there, but I’ve gotta admit: sure it has problems, and you’re free to think it’s worse off than any other school, but it’s definitely one of the best around.
Just another two cents from a guy who loves his university all the more. :D</p>
<p>And trust me, I could write a long list of things that absolutely suck about going to Cal so it’s not like I know about only one side of the coin. 
It’s just that, when it comes to Berkeley, people seem to focus a lot more on that list instead of the good things about it. I just feel the need to balance out the debate and so, here we are: Poppin’. :D</p>
<p>Haha I dont intend to start a war here so Ill keep my refutations as non-incendiary as possible. Your major assumption is that a top-notch university needs to have their overall student quality to be stellar. That is not true. I mean just look at it logically, for no fault of Berkeley’s and the fact that they are obliged to admit more people, they have more lax academic standards. The obvious consequence of which is that the overall average quality of students will be lower than a university that has stricter admission standards. You also forget to mention that I added that the top at Cal are more than a match for the top at MIT or Caltech. There are several other factors that make Cal world-class as reflected in the rankings you were so kind to post. </p>
<p>No one disputes how world-class Cal is so there is no need to feel the need to assume the mantle of defender of Cal pride 
I did not pass judgements on Cal at all, like I said, they are obliged to admit more and yet despite that they can compete and be more than a match for the best private schools in the country. I didnt say I prefer private over public because I said I prefer larger classes. Perhaps it might be prudent to read everything I say </p>
<p>My point is that our universities, Cal and Caltech both exemplify the description of being built to a taste. While both are fantastic, they are not for everyone. Those who may feel intimidated by larger classes might want to consider other options than Berkeley and those who dont want to be cocooned in an oppressively elitist environment might want to consider other places than Caltech. That being said, you cant really go wrong with either.</p>
<p>By academic standards, I mean standards for admission.</p>
<p>I have no intentions of starting a mudslinging battle here too, but just a few point by point rebuttals I would like to shed light on:
Perhaps. Even though the international admission rate is quite stingy, but perhaps. The fact though remains that the choice of university, imho, should be based on what opportunities it has to offer which obviously is not lacking in any of these universities. After all, what’s the point of going to college if you can gain nothing out of it? I am a strong believer of the theory that a university is as good as the stuff it can add to you as a person, but maybe that’s just me.
Need I say more about who’s assumption it was?
How generous, I’m sold.
High time someone took up that mantle on this forum. The scales have been tilted the wrong way for far too long.
I never claimed you as saying that. I said it was inside your head. Perhaps it would be prudent to practice what you preach.
Point well taken. The same stencil cannot be used for everyone. In fact, this is what I emphasized in my post:
Hang on, did we just concur? Haha!</p>
<p>Haha yeah we certainly concur. That assumption was not mine. Nowhere did I say that because of having a slightly lower overall standard of students, Berkeley is not top notch. </p>
<p>Still enough of being politically correct and succumbing to my pride I must proclaim, Caltech>Berkeley 
Cheers to you yeahiamthatguy, have a great time in the Bay Area :)</p>
<p>Well, there you have it then. I hope you have a great time in Pasadena too.
Caltech is great school and I’m sure you’ll love it. But it would be unfair on my part to sign off without one last statement:
Berkeley>Caltech (In more ways than one )
Cheerio!</p>
<p>Berkeley openly rips off its out-of-state students. Freaking 60K for a crappy public-school where you may or may not graduate on time because of administrative inefficiencies. As soon as the OOS students leave, Berkeley will go into financial collapse.</p>
<p>Caltech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berkeley. No contest.</p>
<p>
Thanks for cheerleading.
Out of sheer curiosity, might I know when you attended Berkeley to form such scathing opinions of an institution of such high repute?</p>
<p>PD always has a way with words ;)</p>
<p>Very articulate, I confess. ;)</p>
<p>Guy, I told you my favorite pinching bag will surface. :)</p>
<p>You’re the first guy who popped up in my head when I saw that post Tippu. Haha!
It was almost anticipated, sooner rather than later. :)</p>
<p>Yo dont be so hard on PD. He just likes to do some recreational trollin’ ;)</p>
<p>It wont lemme see it. Says “sign in with a different username”!</p>
<p>CalTech and UCB are like comparing apple to orange.
Berkeley has a different vibe alltogether. CalTech can narrow you down to a major, UCB has more choices.
Profile of admitted freshmen
[Facts</a> at a glance - UC Berkeley](<a href=“By the numbers - University of California, Berkeley”>By the numbers - University of California, Berkeley)</p>
<p>Number of applicants: 50,312 (Fall 2010)
4,109 students enrolled (Fall 2010)
25.6% of applicants admitted (Fall 2010 and Spring 2011)
4.19 (on a 4.0 scale) median high-school grade point for admitted freshmen (Fall 2010).
SAT scores: Average SAT Composite score of 2031 for admitted freshmen (Fall 2010).
73% from California (Fall 2010)
63% from California public high schools (2010)
25.1% are first generation college student with neither parent having a four-year college degree (Fall 2010)
66% have at least one parent born outside the U.S. (2009)</p>
<p>The EECS program for UCB is very very hard to get in. So you can increase the SAT by 200 points for Enginnering/CS.</p>
<p>And in both schools, only the smartest and fittest will survive :)</p>