<p>(plscatamacchia)You have called me names before ,“I am a looser,I am crazy,I am this and that.” I don’t know why you are getting so mad unless you livelihood is at stake . (are you working for the big four as some kind of shill )As I have stated before ,I have no purpose on here other than to warn the younger set about the pitfalls of accounting and hopefully to not make some of the mistakes that I made .To state that all those who posted to the anonymous accountant"holy crap this really sucks"are lazy slackers is irrational (as to get into the big four in the first place you must be intelligent and hardworking.)I’ve said it before and I will say it again, any time a job has very high turnover(excluding minimum wage work )there is a serious problem.THE PROOF IS THAT INTELLIGENT PEOPLE DON’T WALK AWAY FROM GOOD SITUATIONS,THEY ONLY LEAVE BAD SITUATIONS.To those undecided ,don’t believe your accounting professors , they cannot tell you the truth because without the enrollment they don’t have jobs.Take a part time job in accounting and listen , just listen to what others are saying about their lives and their work ,then decide if you want this for yourself.</p>
<p>I read that post and the responses. Most I read were positive. Saying it’s hard but the log term benefits are great. There were some complaining but it wasn’t the majority. So, what are you taking about?</p>
<p>As I said I HAVE talked to cpas big 4 and non big 4. They like their jobs. They aren’t the negative crowd you seem tl hang around with. It is true that pessimists run in packs. Constantly feeding off of each others negative opinions and making themselves believe that because as a small group they are all miserable that the whole world is right there with them. They aren’t.</p>
<p>I agree with plscatamacchia. The only people that will post online about their jobs are those that hate it. How often do you find happy hard-working people constantly posting online about how great their jobs are? They are most probably enjoying whatever time they have off work with their families, rather than posting stuff online.</p>
<p>Exactly^^.</p>
<p>MightyNick I agree with the reporting bias there, however you guys also aren’t putting into consideration of the FREQUENCY of the complaints.</p>
<p>My niece works in a big firm in Wash.DC and doesn’t like her accounting postion but she’s good at it. For her, it’s a stepping stone to something else later in life. Her colleagues range from loving it to hating it, it really depends on what you want and what you expected. The long hours aren’t for her, it lessens her salary, which seemed great at first by a lot when you factor in the number of hours she is there or working at home. But it does have great benefits, a great location, she has met nice people, but not everyone is cut out for it. Some, like her, might like a smaller company, but the excitement at first, the woeing of the companies after college, won initially. They paid for her masters, she passed her CPA first time, got bonus’s, but seeing her in this field forever isn’t what would make her happy…but in this economy she is staying put and doing her best.</p>
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<p>People that are miserable in their jobs tend to complain in higher frequency too. Regardless of that, I am not saying that a Big 4 job is amazing as recruiters tell you at job fairs, or that a Big 4 career is amazing. Face it, any job - banking, consulting, or even corporate finance - will require you to put in a lot of hours at the entry level if you want to advance your career. The grass always looks greener on the other side, but the reality is that you will need to forget about work-life balance if you want a great career/salary ahead. People work at the Big4 so they have more doors open when they chose to work elsewhere. The Big4 will give you greater exit opportunities since you are exposed to different industries while you work there. However, the Big 4 is not meant for those people that are certain about which industry/position they want to work in after college, and want a better work/life balance (even that is debatable, as I know a couple of friends working in industry right out of college and putting in at least 50-60 hours). </p>
<p>Basically, the decision is yours…do you mind giving it your all while you’re young and single and energetic for a job that will pay off significantly in the future? Or do you want to “sweeter” (and that is debatable) life with a better work life balance but not as great exit opportunities later?</p>
<p>regarding high turnover rates - many top tier consulting firms have an average tenure of two years…</p>
<p>Just to give my opinion about what copies and pls were talking about…</p>
<p>That blog mirrors what many do believe. At least, from the view of fellow new hires I know. </p>
<p>I’d say anyone who does stay with Big 4 longer than a year is not normal. Especially those who tell me some insane stories. Ultimately, it takes a certain person to be happy at the Big 4. And any other job that works you that hard with work that is fairly unrewarding. </p>
<p>Just from my experience, many Big 4 employees are one of two types of people:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Complainers that need to quit already. Seriously, why are you still there are 3 years if you hate it so much?</p></li>
<li><p>People with no lives. Seriously, there are so many people that do not seem to care about their social life, it’s sickening. Many single people, people with no families, and if they have either, they are willing to sacrifice it for work. A lot of people just stay and linger at work. Even if it’s not busy. And when it is busy… things are never efficient enough and staffing sucks so people get overworked. But many are so used to it (or even proud of it), that they don’t care. They just think it’s normal. It’s not. Certaintly not for the $$ you make. Or considering the job itself is not very satisfying. But I digress…</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So, I’d say that there are a mix of people at the Big 4, but ultimately, those who stay… are their own sorta crazy.</p>
<p>For instance, I know someone who had a legitimate mental breakdown and was hospitalized. He worked at one of the Big 4. I have heard some insane stories. Now, if you’re making 6 figures and bonuses, fine. But for 50k? Seriously not worth it. </p>
<p>Plus, Big 4 don’t pay overtime to their unlicensed employees. It’s illegal.</p>
<p>And yes, I am a bit biased. But I speak from experience. There are people who enjoy accounting and working at the Big 4. Those people, IMO, are a bit insane… and I personally can never truly relate.</p>
<p>And lastly, I cannot speak upon the exit opportunities the Big 4 provide. But, honestly, you see Big 4 employees in accounting positions of all the clients. Is this the great exit opportunity you talk about? You won’t be making big bucks and leading an amazing life at any of those firms, usually. And, yes, you can maybe make controller or CFO, one day. But to be honest, I really don’t think the Big 4 is a necessity within the world of accounting. Sure, it helps… but the Big 4 love to market how you should stay with them for X years to help you professional, help your career, etc.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I don’t think it’s a huge boost. Not worth your health, both mental and physical, anyway. </p>
<p>I think plenty of the jobs that ex-Big 4 employees end up with could be had without ever working at a Big 4 firm… that’s just my opinion. Additionally, I think 90% of said “exit opportunities” that people go for are not glamorous or any of that. Yes, some might get lucky, but most don’t.</p>
<p>The Big 4 is filled with the hopes and dreams of lies they perpetuated to get stupid college students reeled in. And it works. Worked for me. Works for many others I know. There is a reason the turnover rate, as mentioned, is so high.</p>
<p>And lastly, it’s not just the Big 4. There are plenty of jobs that might have ****ty hours. However, I will say this… those hours do take a toll on your mental and physical health. So, is it worth it? I don’t think so. Then again, I have yet to truly assess these amazing exit opportunities… so we will see.</p>
<p>Also, just wanted to say… DeBruns… I am in your neice’s situation. And even in copies… and in the situation of many others.</p>
<p>I am not crazy or depressed or a weird person. I am someone who felt simply okay about accounting, got somewhat fooled and now realize I dislike my work and don’t even know if I want to do accounting ever again either.</p>
<p>So, I want to give some advice to those on this thread:</p>
<p>Do you really like accounting? Like, do you truly enjoy anything about it? If not. Get out. And go work somewhere. Go do it everyday for hours. It is the only way to know. You can’t study and take some tests, read on it, etc. and think you are okay with it. School and your career are so different. </p>
<p>So, for those accounting majors out there. Really know you will be satisfied with accounting day in and day out your whole life, because it is very possible that will be your life. Personally, I don’t give a crap about financial reporting. I don’t care about records or any of it.</p>
<p>So ask yourself… do you? Do you want to be the one dealing with it? Whether it’s corporate accounting, public accounting, as a controller, or even CFO… it all deals with similar material. So make sure that you will, when you’re 25, 30, 45, 65… you’ll be satisfied. Will you enjoy telling others what you do? Excited when your kid asks you what you do for work?</p>
<p>I am not saying your work must be glamorous, but I think, and just based on my experience, it is important to be proud of your work and, to a certain extent, excited.</p>
<p>To me, work should not be about making money and surviving. However, that’s what it was whe I was in college, that was what I thought I wanted. I wanted the security of accounting, the decent to good (or possibly great) salaries that could be had, and didn’t care if I didn’t like it. Hell, I didn’t dislike it… it was just okay. </p>
<p>But realize that you should truly enjoy what you do. And I’d say it’s a prime reaosn why you see so much turnover, complaining, and hate on accounting in those blogs and what not. Yes, the Big 4 overworks you, but it’s not just the Big 4. It’s accounting. At the heart of it, it’s college kids who had high hopes and realize they can’t stand what they thought they could stand… </p>
<p>So, I will see it again… DO YOU REALLY LIKE ACCOUNTING?</p>
<p>This is not to say that it’s odd to enjoy accounting. I’m sure plenty do. But before going into accounting, make sure you are one of them. And I suggest getting a job within accounting, doing it day in and day out, and thinking about what your future could hold.</p>
<p>Personally, I regret my choice of degrees (yes, BS and MS in accounting). But I’m hoping that the economy turns up and I can find a job that is more satisfying.</p>
<p>what is the minimum gpa to get a summer internship with the big 4? my gpa is ok but not great, although I am trying to and probably going to raise it this semester.</p>
<p>3.0 is usually bare minimum, ignore people’s stories of exceptions. 3.5+ is recommended to have a strong chance of an interview.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insight CollegeKid. It’s good to hear from someone with first hand experience of working at the Big4. Anyways, my point is this: As a new college graduate with little to no work experience, would you have passed up the opportunity to work at the Big 4? I highly doubt it, especially for someone who is an accounting major . Yes, the work/life balance sucks, and most people claim that the work isn’t that great either. But at the end of the day, beggars can’t be choosers, especially new college graduates that just want experience and a decent salary to live off of. </p>
<p>Also, as a business major (finance, accounting, etc) what “better” (because its all relative) options do you have? I can think of investment banking, consulting, investment management, or corporate finance. The hours in those industries are even worse than the Big 4 (especially i-banking and investment management…consulting and corporate finance to a lesser extent, but still pretty bad hours as a new hire). You will say that at least i-banking, consulting and investment management pay better, but then again, how easy is it to land those jobs? You will be competing against kids with 4.0 GPA’s from target schools in this crappy economy. That’s the biggest challenge. I go to a target school and even getting an interview at those firms is quite difficult unless you have a stellar GPA and prior work experience. </p>
<p>I just look at it this way: There’s no such thing as work/life balance early in your career. You should just take the best job you can possibly get, in the field of study you like most (personally, I have liked accounting since high school and throughout college…but my opinion on that may change later on). If people complain about the long hours and low pay at the Big 4, I doubt they’ll be any happier working an extra 20 hours (Big 4 is 70-80 hours during busy season, 50-55 otherwise) a week in an i-banking/consulting job (add in all the traveling hours) even with the extra pay.</p>
<p>I think quite a few good points have been made. One thing I think that hasn’t been mentioned is that SOX caused a huge influx of accounting majors. Probably 80% of those people don’t have the mindset to do accounting. </p>
<p>Also, another important factor is the office you’re in. My office is in a southern town with southern charm. 125 employees so everyone knows everyone. We have a very strong team core and for the 1 1/2 busy season I’ve been around I have enjoyed it. </p>
<p>It’s ALL about asking yourself if you really find glory in accounting, which is almost impossible but for those who have the personality the big 4 is a great stepping stone to corporate finance. </p>
<p>I can tell you that the most important thing with big 4 is having a good senior your first year. Mine was very inspiring. He loved his work and as he put it he “was making the world a safer place for all the investors out there.”</p>
<p>When you go through recruiting I cannot tell you how important it is to put aside name recognition and find where you fit in. You won’t get this from recruiter, as they like to kiss your ass. Become friendly with people from each office (associate level) and ask them about what the firms culture is like. </p>
<p>The best point made so far is to ask yourself “is accounting for me”? In intermediate did those hours of studying learning about revenue recognition and derivatives fly by because of how much fun you were having (of course I exaggerate)? Than you may like working in accounting. I loved learning the stuff and yes I’m a nerd because of it. I do work at the big 4 and I love it. I’ve pulled 70 hour weeks and I’ve gone home at 4 everyday for 2 weeks. Don’t do it because your professors say to do it, do it because debits and credits make your heart beat speed up =P. </p>
<p>All t</p>
<p>im a first semester sophomore with a 3.3-3.4 gpa, have a good chance to get it above 3.5 this semester though</p>
<p>jacob: Bad, it only gets harder.</p>
<p>my gpa has gone up every semester so i dont know how that is bad</p>
<p>Why is this so hard for people?</p>
<p>Figure out what majors actually get jobs at your school. Figure out which of those careers will provide the minimum lifestyle you are willing to accept(this depends on the individual). Figure out what you are smart enough to do(i.e. don’t pick Quantum Physics just because people get good jobs with it if you got a C in Calculus). Of those majors you can handle and get a job with that pays enough for you to be happy, choose the one you think will result in a job you LIKE. Here’s a partial list for most of you:</p>
<p>Accounting
Engineering
Supply Chain Management
Actuarial Science
Computer Science/MIS</p>
<p>Don’t pick accounting if you prefer something else. If you don’t like any of these but must have job security and good pay, better figure that out now and make it happen because this forum isn’t going to do it for you.</p>
<p>I’m finding it really amusing to read all these negative posts about accounting and the number of hours that people work.</p>
<p>I hate to break it to you, but I work in the oil business, in logistics, and the only people who aren’t working at least 50 hours a week are the hourly employees. Everyone from research and engineering, to operations, to planning, to accountng, are putting in tons of hours.</p>
<p>Adulthood can be a drag - enjoy college while you’re there…</p>
<p>Hello guys and Gals! Is intermediate accounting and cost accounting doable in the same semester. I will have the weekdays plus three days off: Friday, Saturday and Sunday to study .On the Contrary, is taking both Educational Suicide for a student who works and hard and is studious.</p>