I am an international student accepted onto a semester abroad programme for next year. I have the choice between the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana and George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia and I can’t decide where to go!
I know Notre Dame is very prestigious and it looks an amazing university. However, I have heard the city it is located in is a bit of a dump and very crime ridden. That said I have always wanted to visit Chicago and it is only 1 hour 30 mins on Amtrak to Chicago. Furthermore, I have always liked the idea of experiencing “middle America,” the real America that isn’t really shown on TV as most shows are skewed towards a California lifestyle. Another issue with ND is that it is a catholic university and I am not religious. I dislike being in an environment where people preach to you and try and convert you, and I have heard ND is quite like that. Though, ND’s worldwide name recognition would help me in the future when applying for jobs.
George Mason is obviously not on the same page as Notre Dame academically but it’s positives include being in a safe city and not far from Washington, D.C. As a history student, access to D.C. would be amazing and D.C. is closer to GMU than Chicago is to Notre Dame, meaning I would be able to travel into D.C. more often than I would Chicago.
So, where do I go?
This isn’t a close call. Notre Dame. George Mason is an average school.
It is Catholic but it is arguably a secular school. No one will try to convert you.
You will love ND. BTW, “crime ridden” is not by any means an accurate description of South Bend.
Can you live in the dorms?
Thanks for the quick reply! i will be living in dorms if I choose it. I am not religious but have always strived to be a person of faith, as long as I am not being preached to 24/7 I am fine. I would like my own journey to faith which may sound a bit silly.
I heard South Bend is a bit sketchy but admittedly crime ridden is a bit too much of an exaggeration.
I want to be a diplomat in the future so ND would be a stellar school to include on my resume.
What in particular do you think I’ll love about ND? Would it offer the typical middle America college experience I am looking for? Also, if you know about South Bend… is going to Chicago at weekends feasible?
Btw I’m coming from England 
I am biased but there is no campus experience like ND. Academic, social, sports, etc. The campus facilities are incredible. ND has a $10 billion endowment. Classes are small and professors teach.
ND is an elite American school so saying it offers a middle America feel is a stretch. The surrounding area does though.
Chicago is only 90 miles away so yes weekend trips are quite easy.
ND residence life is much like the English House system. So there are rivalries, you play sports against each other. You know the system.
You will have a great time. Is this for the fall semester or spring semester?
American Catholics do not proselytize. However, Evangelicals in the south do.
Notre Dame is the clear choice.
This comment seems appropos of nothing for the OP. GMU is not in the south. The one advantage GMU has is access to DC - good for history and politics. It’s certainly not the residential college that ND is.
Next fall. But I may do a year out instead if my university allow me to!
As long as the surrounding area is quintessentially American, that’s all I care about. I also like that ND has small class sizes. I’ve never been outside England before, apart from France and Wales (embarrassingly!). So I think going to the U.S. will be overwhelming enough without going to a large school like GMU as well.
I saw Amtrak rides to Chicago are pretty reasonable and if I left in the morning I could easily get back in the evening.
Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions? I won’t bombard you with them until you allow me to do so 
Ask away. If you go for the fall semester you are there for football season.
What is the atmosphere like on campus? I know GMU is a commuter campus but is ND more community spirit? I want to attend a college where there is a lot of community spirit and people don’t go home at weekends.
In terms of politics, I am a conservative, so Notre Dame appeals to me in this respect.
How strict are the rules at ND? I am obviously coming from a country where the drinking age is 18 and most of my university social life revolves around drinking and clubbing. I dislike clubbing but like attending parties. I’m not a big drinker, so ND’s strict alcohol rules are not going to matter to me that much. But does this have an effect on the college’s social life at all?
Finally, what is South Bend like? Is it just a typical small American city? Is there anything to do around the local area? An obvious advantage of going to GMU is that if I am enrolled on the year abroad I will be there for the inauguration and political events surroundig that. But prestige is more important to me!
I’ll put in a vote for George Mason. It is true that it is overall a lower ranked university than ND, but considering your interests I think it could be a good choice. It has the 7th highest placement of diplomats - http://spgia.gmu.edu/news-events/leadership-stories/mason-ranks-seventh-in-country-for-placing-foreign-service-officers/
Also, it is no longer a primarily commuter college. There is a vibrant campus with many students living on campus - and many that live close to campus. The number of commuters is skewed by working professionals who are coming back to pick up a degree later in life.
The metro ride into DC is easy, and the university provides a free shuttle to the station.
I’ve visited campus twice with my son, who’s seriously considering GMU (not in anything to do with international relations). I’ve been impressed with the friendly and diverse students, growing campus, and involved administration. I’d be happy for him to go there!
The ND campus environment is electric with school spirit. There is no way to really describe the ND community. Saturdays in the fall bring people from all over country and the tail gate parties are legendary. The week before is filled with pep rallies. Basketball season is also quite special. The school is a national force in virtually every sport where it participates. Even sports like fencing, soccer and lacrosse.
99% of students return after the first year and 90% graduate on time. 80% of all students live on campus. The rest live off campus but are not commuters.
Notre Dame is strict on parietals. Otherwise it is a rather fun campus. The food is outstanding.
South Bend is a bland sort of place, mostly residential.
The ND campus is quite large for a school with 8,000 undergraduates and 4,000 graduates. The football stadium currently seats 81,000 fans.
I agree on ND. Yes, it is in the middle of nowhere, but it will be a remarkable academic and campus experience. If you go during the fall it is better because it will be football season and the whole game day experience there is wonderful. Chicago is about 2 hours away so it can be a fun place to visit during a school vacation.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss George Mason University. Firstly, the commuter school reputation is outdated. There are a bunch of new dorms on campus. Second, in fields such as International Affairs, Politics, Economics the university is excellent. The Chemistry and Biology departments are very good, too. Third, you can’t beat the experience of being a college student in the Washington DC area. Is it better than Notre Dame? That’s a matter of individual taste. But the experience is different and memorable for many undergraduates.
If I had only one year in the US, I would definitely want to spend it in DC from a cultural and social perspective. There is a metro stop located adjacent to the GMU campus, which enables you to explore the metro area. DC is one of the most popular places for young people to relocate after graduation from college.
Not to offend anyone, but to an international student, ND may seem a bit juvenile from a social perspective. No doubt its academics are highly ranked, but it is an insular place. Strong school spirit is not a positive for a visiting student - diversity and inclusion are more important than prestige for a positive experience. GMU is far more diverse than ND - GMU is about 50% White; ND about 80% White, according to their respective Common Data Sets.
Don’t get caught up in rankings and prestige. Realize that where you will be in the US will be as important to your experience, as it will enable you to better understand the cultural and social fabric here. A fairly isolated college campus in a cold weather environment is not an ideal choice.
I wonder if an exchange student should even consider the idea of prestige while choosing a study abroad program, since it will have little to no bearing on future job prospects, especially in England, where schools like Durham would put UND out of the park simply because of regional prestige differences.
I have no idea why people talk about schools like UND and Vanderbilt as they would of Harvard, in terms of international recognition; it certainly isn’t the case, and since UND wouldn’t give you a degree, it probably wouldn’t help a whole lot even if it was.
Like, I am considering applying to study abroad as well, perhaps at Sciences Po or Oxford or Australian National University. All of these schools are distinguished, but I wouldn’t hesitate to attend Sussex or the SEA semester program if I thought it would give me a better experience. It’s not as though I would get a degree from any of these schools.
@albclemom The comment that ND is juvenile and 80% white is extremely offensive and basically it shows extreme ignorance regarding ND’s role in forming civil rights policy in the US and human rights policy globally. I suspect you are not aware that the school was intimately involved with Martin Luther King during those most turbulent times.
The university has held 16 presidential appointments which I believe is a record going back to the Eisenhower administration through the current administration on such issues. ND was also instrumental in the 1980’s working with the Vatican and Reagan administration in the groundswell that began the break up of the Soviet Union.
While forum participants have no fiduciary role, it behooves the adults to give sound advice to students regarding building a CV. Somehow advising a student to go to a DC area school to visit tourist destinations at the expense of attending one of the world’s top universities seems ridiculous. Employers, graduate school admissions committees do not care that you visited the Smithsonian while you went abroad.
Sorry, to be somewhat aggressive but some of your points are, well, ridiculous.
@international95 You are naive. You are confusing recognition with the general public with recognition to people that matter to a career. No one here on the street knows any of the Grand Ecoles, but people that make decisions about careers most certainly do. It is the same way over there.
I am aware of the Grandes Ecoles and how the system works in France. That said, its reputation would not necessarily carry over to other places as well as would that of Harvard or Yale. I say this after following my parents around in eight countries, who work for human rights organizations and political think tanks. Also, given the surfeit of good schools in the US, recognition for schools like UND tapers off behind my schools like my parents’ alma maters, Melbourne and Sydney, which enjoy a stronger national reputation that carries out to stronger international reputations. I wouldn’t be surprised if companies received a graduate of Sciences Po better than one from UND.
Also, this is an exchange student, not a degree-seeking student, so studying a semester at UND would confer nil benefits in terms of recognition, because most places outside of the US only care about the place where the degree was earned.
In fact, it seems that you are the one who is naive, completely oblivious to racial issues, suggesting that just because an institution worked in civil rights issues and in forming human rights policy, its students somehow co-opt the same attitude, and are somehow at the forefront of the conversations on race. It’s not very different from saying, hey, my friend is black, so this means that I’m not racist.
@BatesParents2019 I would expect no less than an insulting comment from someone who defines himself by the school to which his child attends. The comment on the racial composition of ND is from their CDS. It is factual; if it offends you then that is juvenile. How passive aggressive your last comment is, more proof you are unable to sustain a reasoned conversation.
“I have no idea why people talk about schools like UND and Vanderbilt as they would of Harvard, in terms of international recognition; it certainly isn’t the case, and since UND wouldn’t give you a degree, it probably wouldn’t help a whole lot even if it was.”
Agreed.