<p>This thread is the biggest ******** I have seen. Come on CC, even you should know that admission processes are crapshoots. Valedictorians get rejected, 1900’s get accepted. </p>
<p>Stop trying to make sense of a system that employs so much factors and discretion. Skiiz, you got rejected from what you think is a “lesser” ivy. Big ****ing whoop. I hope you got into other colleges that you may like. </p>
<p>Seriously, I hate when arguments about college admissions start. Unless you are an admissions officer, you have no evidence to offer about the truth behind the admissions. Stop spreading rumors.</p>
<p>I understand what you and the other parents are doing by trying to reason the rejection out since we don’t know the whole story. But in cases like this, I honestly think it was just a plain old accident. I don’t believe (or maybe I don’t want to believe) Cornell practices Tuft’s syndrome. It is extremely rare to see an HYP acceptee not get into Cornell.</p>
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<p>oldfort, then what could possibly have turned Cornell off? Honestly, if OP was black, I could say with 99.9% confidence that he would’ve got into every Ivy and top school he applied to that doesn’t practice Tufts Syndrome. I’m not saying it was AA, but do you really see anything else that could’ve turned Cornell off? And please don’t say essay because a guy with his stats is smart enough to write at least a decent one.</p>
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<p>Like I mentioned already, this guy is NOT your average valedictorian/salutatorian. This rejection makes absolutely no sense to me.</p>
<p>I think that eventually using race as admissions criteria is going to be outlawed. It may be a few decades, but I believe that people will realize how ridiculous and hypocritical it is. MLK himself said that a man should be judged on his character, not his color. Giving certain ethnicities preferential treatment is nothing other than pure racism. Race has no place in the college admissions process.</p>
<p>I got rejected by Northwestern but accepted at Cornell. So yes, the two schools are somewhat interchangeable. </p>
<p>@wavedasher</p>
<p>I doubt Cornell uses Tufts. And yes, if OP were any other race, then it’s pretty clear he would have gotten in. It puzzles me how people with 1900s-2100s are getting in, yet a 2400 Salutatorian with national awards doesn’t.</p>
<p>^ not just salutatorian but salutatorian of a class of 1015 students. That’s more than 5 times the class size of mine and many other high schools in the country. Pretty damn impressive IMO then the cases of most salutatorians/valedictorians.</p>
<p>And there are other factors we should consider. Decisions can and are made by factors such as the time of day, the current mood of the officer reading the application, etc. OP’s application may have been read by someone in an unusually irrational state of mind. Yeah, it’s unlikely but it is definitely possible.</p>
<p>So many of you on here have bought into the hierarchical, institutional myth that good grades = smartest and should mean a ticket to wherever you want to go. Now you’re trying to process the reality of how the real world operates and you don’t like it. The new book “Quiet” talks about the syndrome of how the success of many Asians ends with graduation and, more broadly, the struggles countries like China and Japan have in innovation and creativity that underly the reasons western countries, the US in particular, have individuals able to create or capitalize on “the next big thing”. Students of this nature are conditioned to succeed well in the false confines of school.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t know if I would have automatically accepted the OP. Similar to your situation, Saugus, the grades were there but I didn’t see any passion in the other activities. Doing 125 hours of service at a hospital isn’t that much and it struck me as more obligatory than a true passion to help sick children or whatnot. When you look at it from the perspective of an adcom focused on measuring not only stats but also writing (conveying personality), ECs, leadership, interests, etc…, this is not a particularly strong candidate. Would have been better to find a passion, OP.</p>
<p>So no, wavedasher, the rejection probably wasn’t a mistake. The real world’s a far messier place than high school and admissions build classes, they don’t accept individuals. They also build experiences for their students to feed off and learn from one another. Again, artists, architects, entrepreneurs, etc. don’t fit these hyper narrow and ultimately failed models of assessing intelligence based mostly on memorizing information. Cornell’s strength is that it recognizes these different types of intelligence and provides top quality programs to serve them.</p>
<p>Working in education, I’ve seen students make an array of mistakes in the college application process that leads to rejection. 1,000 applicants are denied every year at Cornell because they don’t apply to a specific college. I’ve seen kids upload an essay intended for school A onto school B’s application. We’ve had students who didn’t show up for their alumni interview & not call the interviewer until a week later. Some students don’t get the application in on time, others never visit the college or research the college, which comes through in their essays. Some never ask anyone to look at their essays & write the old “the game I scored the winning goal in” ( One Adcom at a top 30 school told me every time he reads one of those (which is often) he wants to scream). Some don’t take the required SAT II’s. I’ve seen situations where parents tried to manipulate the situation to fit their preference & sabotaged their own kid by failing to submit something for them, etc. I’m not saying that any of these things were done by the OP, but remember sometimes things aren’t always as simple as they appear & are self-reported.</p>
<p>You didn’t see any passion? So you think he ranked 1st in his state and 12th nationally in Java by programming 2 hours a week? I know some mad smart and dedicated programmers, and they code and design games for FUN in their free time instead of watch TV, video games, etc. You really don’t think that’s passionate enough?</p>
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<p>The problem is not why he was rejected. It’s why was he rejected WHEN others with much lower stats and mediocre ECs were accepted. Honestly applejack, if OP was a URM, you think he would’ve gotten rejected? He would’ve been inundated with likely letters from everywhere. I challenge you to find just one accepted person in this year’s results thread whose stats were on par with the OP’s. </p>
<p>Now, I don’t know if OP applied to any other Ivies, so I can’t make a statement about if he’s not giving us the full story. However, from the stats I see on the front page, there is no way he should’ve gotten rejected.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, if OP didn’t have those national/regional awards in programming and only had the high SAT scores, rank, etc. I wouldn’t be in this debate.</p>
<p>Haha, this definitely is not a ■■■■■ thread. Just wanted to get some closure or understanding about the whole process. On the topic of passion, I do think that I could have been hurt by my lack of it, but I don’t understand the emphasis on it. While it’s great that some kids have found their calling in high school, how can you expect everyone to have found this passion? Even now I’m partially undecided about what direction I want to go. My activities weren’t as focused because I spent a lot of high school figuring out what I wanted to do. I liked a lot of things, but never found that one subject of passion. A lot of people I know are the same way. </p>
<p>Some random responses to what people said: The hospital volunteering was using statistical software to analyze some studies done there. I thought that there was somewhat of a theme of computer science throughout my EC’s, but maybe I should have emphasized it more. And the class rank thing is legitimate, because my only B’s came in Freshman/early Soph year, so after that my rank did not change. </p>
<p>I would also suggest that people applying in the future seek a more personal relationship with their teachers. My recs were pretty good and totally positive, but I think they could have been a little more convincing. I think my overall downfall was appearing too much like a typical Asian “robot” applicant, lacking a defining personality. This definitely isn’t true of myself in real life, but with applications, the adcom’s perception of you is their reality. This turned into a bit of a rant, but oh well :P</p>
<p>Very interesting thread. I was thinking you were a ■■■■■ as well. Only due to that 36 on the ACT. I was mystified why you were rejected until I read your comment above with regards to LOR and personal statements. No doubt your application was in the serious consideration pile, but it didn’t move forward as you lacked in presenting yourself well in the essays. It is just an interesting year in the college landscape of acceptances and I agree that you should have been accepted. It’s ok to rant as many of us try to make sense of it all. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>I wonder if the ad com’s were thinking the same thing I was. If OP got a perfect score on the ACT or The SAT ( whichever one he took first) , why did he spend the time taking the other tests? All of the schools take either of the tests and express no preference. I wonder if they are asking, why not do something more productive whith your time and obvious talents if you already nailed the test.</p>
<p>I think the corollary to this is Why retake the SAT if you already have a 2300? Or ACT if you have 35?</p>
<p>Those show you can do college level work. Taking them again to get a perfect does not increase one’s chances and perhaps shows one to be more " perfectionist robot" than what the school desires for their campus.</p>
<p>Kids that are focused on that type of perfection may be the ones who lives in the library in the pursuit of perfect grades and miss a lot of the great college experiences. Those types of students may not add as much to the campus environment and their fellow students’ experiences as the kid who gets a 2300 in one sitting and is good with that so he focus on something else.</p>
<p>There is a niche for someone like the OP at Cornell. Not every student has to be “interesting.” Heck, I peruse the chance threads sometimes and I’d say that I find fewer than 10% of the applicants truly interesting. There is a place at Cornell for athletes, for URM’s, for legacies, for 1900 scorers with great essays but Cornell also needs high scoring robots, particularly in its engineering program. If you look at the number of people constantly whining about Cornell’s difficulty, it’s clear that the students Cornell is accepting are not academically up to the task. The OP would be someone who would’ve likely excelled at Cornell.</p>
You know what - I didn’t actually see that part when I read it quickly, which might provide a clue. It was buried in his post and may have been presented that way in the application as well. I stand corrected on that, though - those are significant achievements and show passion.</p>
<p>But, in the end, the schools he did get accepted to are very good but not quite MIT level where one might expect based on his accomplishments. I don’t know where else he applied, but perhaps he just didn’t package himself well enough for adcoms to get him. </p>
<p>I also agree with norcalguy that accepting “interesting” people over “smart” people would be a fool’s game for Cornell and do no service to those people once they arrive on campus. I met some real idiots there (and at the top schools as well) and could only hope they had some savant-style book smarts hidden inside somewhere. My only point was that “smart” comes in many forms and Cornell caters to those different styles better than most.</p>
<p>Obviously the OP is going to be extremely successful no matter the school he attends.</p>
<p>If you want to argue that there are different kinds of intelligence, I’m fine with that. But, I wonder if Cornell is truly evaluating those other kinds of intelligences correctly. It’s not just the premeds and the engineers at Cornell who are whining about not being able to do the work. It’s the students in ILR, in Architecture, in Hotel School, in HumEc, also. Everyone whines. That’s easily my last favorite part of Cornell. So, I wonder about Cornell’s admissions policy and whether it is truly able to determine which students would be successful here. I have a feeling the OP would’ve been one of those quiet kids who would’ve put his head down and worked to earn a 3.9 GPA, instead of coming to CC and writing a monologue about Cornell’s “unfair” difficulty.</p>
<p>I have heard the top schools are looking for the person who ‘might’ become a CEO of a major Corporation, a United States Senator, a Nobel Prize Winner, President of the United States, etc. These are the kind of alumni who enhance a school’s reputation.</p>
<p>On an individual basis, this is obviously impossible to predict, however, there are probably common characteristics of those who have achieved such honors. The long and short of it – smarts are a pre-requisite, but are not enough. Major success, a major award … can show exceptional talent. Finding an activity and sticking to it over many years can show the perserverence that is necessary to achieve these goals. IMO, these are the applicants that stand out.</p>
<p>I think Cornell do admit those high scoring robots, but maybe they already had their fill this year, and maybe some of those applicants were more interesting as a person than OP (at least on paper). D1 went out with someone freshman year. He had over 4.0 in engineering, ended up going to Stanford to get his PhD. But if you were to meet him for the first time, you would never guess he was that smart. He played a sport at Cornell, loved hiking, and was part of the greek life. I am not sure, but he could have been a recruited athlete also.</p>
<p>I do apologize to OP if this becomes too much of criticism (or attack) on your application, but you didn´t do that many ECs which involved other people or gave back to your community. When people are asked to write about “why school X,” most people tend to write about why the school would be a perfect fit for them, what they could get out of going to school X. They tend not to think about what they could contribute to the school. A school needs people to work in the school newspaper, dance, student government, clubs. If they only admited high stat students who are loners - playing video games, write computer programs, and study - who would run the campus? (a lot of people like to go to school functions, but they often do not realize the effort in putting those events togeter, like the Senior Week)</p>
<p>As an Asian, I will say that the biggest mistakes when it comes to college admission most Asians make is to believe that high stats will trump everything. We tend not extend themselves to give back, most prefer “loner” activities (tennis, chess, scholastic competitions). We do have passions, but more often it is passion for ourselves, not for the community. I got to know D2´s college counselor, we´ve had many discussions about Asians he worked with in CA. He said most of them have been brain washed since young age to believe if they just studied hard then they would be able to get into any school they want. Many students would even study by themselves rather than working with their teachers or classmates, and they tend not to participate in class discussions. When this counselor has suggested for them to do some volunteer work or tutoring, most of them thought it would take time away from their studies. </p>
<p>For those lottery schools, you need more than just good stats - LORs, ECS, essays are all important.</p>
<p>Is someone who did Key Club, JV basketball, a couple more hours of volunteering at a nursing home, and write a slightly better essay really going to contribute more to the college? If I’m an Ivy League school, I look for TALENT. If someone is a concert level pianist who played at Carnegie Hall, I could care less if they don’t have any other EC’s. The OP’s talent is that he is very smart and he can program the **** out of a computer. And he does that probably better than anyone Cornell has taken this year. He’s not going to be out at frat parties. But, he may start a video game club or a programming club at Cornell. He may win us some engineering tournaments. Everyone has something to contribute and it doesn’t always have to be dance, student government, or school newspaper. Cornell is not starving for another drunk kid on Friday nights. It has plenty of those. What Cornell does not have is a spectacular med school acceptance rate. Or law school acceptance rate. Or placement on Wall Street. (this is all in comparison to its peers of course). And that has everything to do with Cornell accepting students that are not as academically strong.</p>
<p>I would like to see Cornell accept more kids that are academically strong, instead of all this garbage about “fit” and essays. There are two schools that are unique: Hotel School and Architecture School. You need a unique skill set to succeed in those. All of the other schools require the same skill set and that’s intelligence. Intelligence as measured by SAT scores and high school GPA. The kid going to law school from ILR needs the same kind of intelligence as the kid going to law school as a government major in CAS. The kid that’s going to Wall Street as a AEM major needs the same intelligence as the kid going to Wall Street as an econ major. The bio major going to med school from CAS needs the same intelligence and the same skills as the human development major going to med school. Cornell needs to place more of an emphasis on stronger academics and stop taking all these students with questionable academic records.</p>
<p>The point is there are kids that are academically strong AND are social AND with initiative to start a video game club or a programming club, not just sitting in the room studying 20 hours a day and programming by himself.</p>