<p>Accepting students who ace their SAT’s and GPA need not be mutually exclusive to accepting applicants who demonstrate parallel-to-academic talent in a brilliant way – and I don’t think these two types of potential admits are necessarily favored, one over the other, at Cornell. The argument for perhaps putting more emphasis on straight academic accomplishment may have some validity, but it should not be at the complete expense of amazing talent shown at other levels (like a good capacity for societal interaction, passion for proposed major backed by relevant awards, artistic talent, demonstrated social altruism, et cetera).</p>
<p>These two types of potential admits are not, and should not be, incompatible.</p>
<p>Then why is Cornell taking so many 1900 scorers? Clearly, there are not enough kids who are academically strong.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Amazing talent? Have you looked at the chance threads? Everyone has their Model UN, FBLA, 100 hours of hospital volunteering, and 2 years of cross country. How is any of that amazing talent for anything? Like I said, I’d rather have a kid who does 1 thing well (ie true talent) than a bunch of kids who do a hodge podge of stuff to pad their apps and still don’t have strong academic records.</p>
<p>It seems Cornell, more so than any other top school in the country, deemphasizes academics. It takes kids who are mediocre at a bunch of stuff rather than a kid who is amazing at one thing. I’d rather have the kid who is amazing at one thing.</p>
<p>Are they taking that many 1900 scorers in CAS and Engineering? Or are they taking lower scorers in Hotel and Architecture because of different admission criteria?</p>
<p>@norcalguy- I have no problem with a threshold policy for “strong academic records,” even for the admits who may be accepted substantially based on merit at other levels.</p>
<p>Oh come on. Are you trying to bait me lol We know where all of the questionable academic freshman and transfer admits are going. And it’s not just Architecture and Hotel. It’s those “fit” schools that emphasize “essays” and “passion” and all those nebulous things we can never objectively measure. My point a couple of posts ago was that the same qualities needed to succeed in CAS and Engineering are the same qualities needed to succeed in HumEC, ILR, and CALS. Clearly, Cornell’s fit based admissions aren’t working for these schools given how much whining we have from Cornell students about the “difficult” academics.</p>
<p>The 2300 scoring students I knew didn’t whine about Cornell’s academics. Engineers didn’t whine about Cornell’s academics (despite the fact they work harder than anyone). All of the whining came from ILR students about how much they have to read (boo hoo). From AEM majors (about how we “don’t understand” their major and that their A- median classes are actually quite difficult). From transfers about how they now work twice as hard only to see their GPA drop by 0.5 (duh, you aren’t in community college anymore, Dorothy). The strongest academic students put their head down, worked hard, kicked ass, took names, and graduated with their 3.9 GPA on their way to med school or law school or whatever. The students who have no business being at Cornell, log onto College Confidential, to “warn” those incoming freshmen about Cornell’s “brutal” academics.</p>
<p>No, not trying to bait you…People have different measure on what is an outstanding school. For someone like you, norcalguy, because of your experience (med school grind), academic is everything to you. For others, it is more than academic, it includes those nebulous things - special talent, leadership, compassion, empathy, over coming adversity. Everyone has their own definition of what a great school is, and that´s why people should find a school with the right fit (most public schools only look at stats, like Berkeley).</p>
<p>Yes, because med school doesn’t value compassion, leadership, empathy. ;)</p>
<p>We aren’t getting the 1900 scorers who are concert pianists. They are going to Harvard. We are getting the 1900 scorers who were president of Key Club (leadership), volunteered for 50 hours (altruism), and had a 2.0 freshman year GPA (overcoming adversity). If that’s what passes for leadership, altruism, and overcoming adversity these days, I’d rather than the 2300 scorer who places 1st in the state for programming and can do little else.</p>
<p>I saw a lot of bad students at Cornell. It’s one thing if these bad students suffered in silence. But, nope. They were full of themselves for getting into Cornell. Cornell students are some of the most self-entitled people I have ever met despite the fact most of their records are quite modest by top school standards. Ezra wanted a school for any person, any study. That implies a certain humbleness. A humbleness Cornell students do not have. Cornell would be served to admit more of these quiet hardworking Asians than more students whose only accomplishment is scoring 2000 on their third try and being president of 3 clubs.</p>
<p>Norcalguy. Get over the fact that you were rejected and move on in life. No school in their right mind would only want a student who is good at one thing. Every school, not just Cornell, has attest to looking for students who are good in multiple areas. If your point was valid than why are top schools paying attention to extracurriculars and not accepting students who get straight a’s in math and mediocre grades in every other subject. I really don’t see how so many people complain on college confidential instead of focusing on doing good . Obviously they didn’t want YOU so get over it</p>
<p>How do you know that? Cornell has 13,000 students, and it doesn´t get any students with special talent?</p>
<p>A girl from D2´s class got into every school she applied to, except for Cornell. If you just look at her, you wouldn´t be able to guess why every school wanted her, and someone else with strong leadership and good stats got rejected by every school. You just don´t know what´s behind each applicant.</p>
<p>You may have your preference what kind of students Cornell should admit, but Cornell´s adm comm has a different view, and I, for one, am happy that they look beyond stats.</p>
<p>Then it will continue to lag in the rankings. Continue to not get its students into high profile fields. Continue to have students whining about its academics. Half of the students that Cornell admits are lucky to get into a school as good as Cornell but all I see is whining about how they don’t get straight A’s anymore, about the financial aid (as if Cornell is supposed to match Harvard dollar for dollar), about how the internet allowance is “only” 15 GB (when I was at Cornell, it was 2 GB), and so on. I didn’t mind the weather at Cornell. Or its location. Or its grading. What I did mind was the incessant whining and sense of entitlement that Cornell kids had. Cornell students aren’t more well rounded than Harvard or Duke’s students. They are just more mediocre. Until Cornell realizes that and seeks excellence, it will always be where it is.</p>
<p>So, norcalguy, I guess your success at a top med school, and into a prime residency – and so many other stories of Cornell alumni like you – are an exception? No. The exception is the other way around, that is, alumni who flounder are the anomaly. The tip top schools like Harvard and Yale show marginally better stats, sure, but they have their share of disappointments and failures as well.</p>
<p>I’m a lot like the OP (at least my application was). Only I got in in 2003. I’m not sure I’d get in today. I had such an easy time with Cornell’s academics, it allowed me time to volunteer at Cayuga Medical Center, to do research, to work odd jobs, to go to parties, to go to Africa. I didn’t spend day and night studying because I didn’t have to. I didn’t spend my time whining because I was happy with my grades. </p>
<p>Cornell has excellent academics. As good as Harvard’s or Yales or Duke’s. But, it gives off a vibe of unhappiness. Some of it is the weather and location and the suicide myth. But, most of it has to do with students struggling and stressing over academics. Students are (appropriately) unhappy when they have trouble understanding material and they don’t get good grades. It makes for a sucky atmosphere for the rest of us who are happy with our academic and social situations. That’s honestly why I think Cornell loses cross admits with peer schools like Penn or Northwestern or Duke. Let’s face it, if it were not in the Ivy League, its yield would totally tank. The vibe at Cornell is just not good. And I think that has to do with Cornell admitting students who are less likely to be successful despite its reputation as a “fit” school. I loved my time at Cornell. Why else would I still be on here as a busy med student 4 years after I graduated? But, I do feel that Cornell students, on average, are less happy with their school than students at other top colleges.</p>
<p>This has not been my experience in the time I’ve spent on campus and in Ithaca. It also has not been the experience of several members of my immediate family who were exceedingly happy at Cornell. And it was not what quite a few Cornell alums who are close friends have related to me over the years – they tend more to glory in positive memories of their years on the hill. In my opinion this idea of a “negative vibe” is largely a myth, and it’s a myth not held by a majority (rather a tiny, but noisy, minority).</p>
<p>We’ll have to agree to disagree then. I was a premed and a bio major so I was surrounded by premeds. And premeds are some of the biggest whiners so that may have biased my view. But, even from people who didn’t really have that tough a time (ILR students, AEM students, even Hotelies), there was just a lot of stress and whining about academics that I didn’t understand. </p>
<p>The worst was the whining about other things like the internet allowance or financial aid. Cornell has the lowest per capita endowment in the Ivy League. of course, it’s FA is not going to be as good as other top schools. But, for some reason, Cornell students feel entitled to all the benefits of a Harvard. All of that just created an atmosphere I didn’t like. I like humbleness. I don’t even mind bragging if you have something to brag about. But, Cornell students had humongous egos despite being, on average, weaker than their peers at Harvard or Yale.</p>
<p>Too many students at Cornell who don’t appreciate it.</p>
<p>^ This just goes to show that Cornell is a diverse university that encompasses many pockets, and many people – people with differing perceptions of the “same place.” As I’ve stated, the (many) Cornell alums that I know were by-and-large very happy with their experience – and very proud and appreciative of it as well.</p>
<p>The problem, I think with your analysis of Cornell vs Harvard, is the following:</p>
<p>If we dropped a nuclear bomb on Cambridge Massachusetts (during break, so no one gets hurt), leveled Harvard University and scattered its students and faculty among academia, fifteen years from now, many would still consider it to be one of the top 2 or 3 Universities in the world.</p>
<p>Seriously – Does Harvard have its reputation because it gets the best students or does it get the best students because of its reputation. I feel it’s kind of circular.</p>
<p>Cornell is one of the great universities of the world because it has a vision and a sense of mission. It adheres to this vision and this mission even if it means that the some magazine may rank a few slots lower, or if its SATs are a bit lower than they could be. (BTW, on an overall scale, both it’s ranking and its average SATs are very nice, thank you very much). Cornell does not try to be Harvard (nor should it, since Harvard already exists). </p>
<p>I can’t seem to stop laughing … then I almost stop … the I can’t seem to stop laughing (“during break, so no on gets hurt”). Also, I agree with what you follow this priceless line up with … ah, laughing again.</p>
<p>The problem is that Cornell students expect it to be Harvard. They expect Harvard-level grade inflation even though the student body isn’t as strong. They expect Harvard-level financial aid even though Cornell’s endowment isn’t as big. Cornell is not Harvard nor will it ever be Harvard.</p>
<p>The only thing Cornell and Harvard has in common is the sense of entitlement that its students have. I can somewhat understand the entitlement Harvard students have but I can’t understand the egos of Cornell students.</p>
<p>You seem to speak of Cornell students like they are all of the exact same mind-set. They aren’t. As far as I can tell there is no problem in my family, or with my friends, regarding unduly inflated egos related to their status as Cornell alums. They seem pretty well adjusted to me.</p>