Expectations of a good music teacher?

<p>My high school sophomore daughter plays the piano and has expressed a desire to be a music major. She has a teacher who she is very fond of and who can teach quite well…but lately has been dropping the ball in terms of signing her up for things with deadlines. I am concerned that this will really hurt her in the end when she goes to apply to schools and her most important teacher possibly doesn’t get recommendations in on time…or something else.</p>

<p>My question for the forum is, what kinds of advice/services should a serious student of music/piano expect from his/her teacher? What kind of additional time outside of the lesson does this require? Are these teachers paid more in order to get these things done?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for your input.</p>

<p>This is a great question and really important at your child’s age. That said, I’m not sure there’s the perfect answer. It’s important to have a trust/respect relationship with the teacher which it sounds like you have. The student should be making consistently significant progress and be challenged. If you know you are going the music major road, then the student should be given opportunities to prepare for that with the appropriate competitions, summer programs, etc. that give them confidence, network opportunities and the skills to handle the workload and pressures. You expect input from your teacher about prospective schools and the faculty at those schools. In short, you hope that your child is prepared as best possible for the college audition/application process - both mentally and musically. If you are seeing problems early, you should try to address it. In my case, the teacher was great on the teaching end but was not very organized on deadlines, etc. I took over that role for my D’s sake and let the teacher teach. Your case might not be that simple and perhaps there are other teachers in which you might have more trust.</p>

<p>I did not pay anything in addition for the teacher to write letters of recommendation or applications for competitions and summer programs.</p>

<p>Speaking as a parent of musicians and as a piano teacher, I think you need to be the one keeping track of dates and being secretary.</p>

<p>I remember driving to my son’s teacher (an hour away) and sitting and waiting for him to finish writing a recommendation because it had to be mailed that day. When he was done, I took it to the post office. Great teacher, but my priorities were not his. Nor did I feel they should be.</p>

<p>So get a calendar, figure out when various deadlines are, and feed them to the teacher a few weeks in advance, and follow up as often as necessary. </p>

<p>I don’t think payment is expected or necessary. A thank-you note for things that take time is appropriate. A thank-you gift is nice. (Not each time, but maybe at holidays or something, with a note that it is because of all they’ve done to help.)</p>

<p>The above is written with the idea that we are talking about deadlines for summer programs, all state, public competitions, and the like. If instead you are asking about things like festivals through the teacher’s music associations - here again, you can ask when the deadlines are, and if you can help. Express your desire to have your child participate in these things, and be prepared to pay all entrance fees, etc. (If your teacher is a member of these things, he/she pays a fairly hefty annual dues, and must also agree to volunteer at a certain number of events. Perhaps this is the stumbling block, which you can’t do anything about.) But if your child doesn’t participate, no, I don’t believe this will “hurt” your child in any way. The benefit to those things is the performance experience, so as long as your child is getting experience in another way, that is what matters.</p>

<p>There are things you can do apart from the teacher. Google competitions, scholarships, summer programs, etc., and enter on your own. You might ask your teacher to create a “generic” recommendation letter for your child - write some wonderful things, but address it To Whom it May Concern. Print and sign a few copies, put them in sealed envelopes, and then you can send it off when necessary.</p>

<p>In the end, the resume only serves to be a written documentation of your child’s training and experience, and assuming the resume isn’t blank, no student is going to be rejected because they skipped festival one year.</p>

<p>The teacher’s role in our case was to be responsive to materials we offered - D provided teachers with potential lists of schools and teachers and received feedback and recommendations, D researched audition rep requirements and worked with the teacher to develop a strategy to prepare effectively, D brought in forms and stamped envelopes for letters of recommendation with deadlines clearly marked and teacher wrote them.</p>

<p>(I say “D” did these things, but I definitely served as project manager for everything except the actual work involved playing the instrument. My feeling was that I could easily spend an hour online finding audition dates while she was more effective spending that hour practicing. YMMV.)</p>

<p>No extra charge by the teachers, and of course we continued to express our gratitude. One teacher was quite involved during audition season, often speaking to the kid by phone while we were on site; the other was not since she had her first child smack in the middle of audition season. (Yes, two teachers, a complicated situation!) Both had long-term relationships with my child and both were very supportive of her efforts. Best of luck to you!</p>

<p>We initiated all external activities and completed all the forms, made the phone calls etc. for masterclasses, competitions, summer programs, college auditions etc… A few minutes of lesson time was occasionally used to select repertoire for a competition or admission recording (but in some cases we picked it without teacher input–my wife and I both have a music background, and the teacher was not terribly interested in the activities for which we chose the rep). </p>

<p>About once a year we asked for a blanket letter of recommendation that could be used to cover: a) admission to upcoming summer or college programs; b) scholarship requirements; and c) admission to competitions. </p>

<p>My son’s first teacher was philosophically opposed to competitions and so never suggested or initiated them (or even inquired about the results of them!), but did not disallow them. My son’s second teacher lived and taught over 300 miles away in a different province, so lessons were infrequent and his involvement was minimal.</p>

<p>Both teachers were excellent at teaching the instrument but we did the legwork and paperwork for stuff. I know there are many teachers that are much more proactive in suggesting competitions, getting entry forms, submitting things etc…</p>

<p>As others have suggested, no payment is given for letters of recommendation, but a Christmas and end-of-the-year gift with a nice thank you note would be appropriate. Even with universal health care in Canada, doctors charge a hefty fee to provide even a form letter that has their signature, so perhaps music teachers should be paid for such letters. Their letters of recommendation often require a considerable amount of thought and effort.</p>

<p>As binx mentions, I would not be concerned about the resume. Some schools do not require one, and even in schools that do require one, it is quite inconsequential in the admission decision. How you child plays at the audition is the big big factor. If the present teacher is helping your child grow as a musician and performer, then I wouldn’t be concerned about their organizational abilities. </p>

<p>If you can network with other parents of serious high school musicians in your area, that should help you in taking on the organizing responsibilities.</p>

<p>lastbird, did not reply at first because of my difficulty understanding what kind of things with deadlines the teacher was late in signing your daughter up for, (could be competition or music festival, perhaps?) As a parent of a college freshman who went through piano auditions last year, I wanted to mention something that others have not touched upon, which does have to do with awareness of time and deadlines. That is the ability of a piano teacher to work with the student in choosing and mastering the audition repertoire by time of the prescreening recording and audition deadlines.</p>

<p>When my child was in 10th grade, having been with a wonderful teacher since first grade, we came to the sad realization that someone new was needed who would be able to oversee the whole process of learning the repertoire and getting ready for auditions as well as be a great teacher. I believe this requires a particular focus and planning ability to help the student get everything ready and polished but not stale by the time of the taping/auditions. I should add that the second teacher turned out to be much more demanding and “tough” than the first teacher, perhaps with the deadlines in mind, yet at the same time was warm and had a great sense of humor. This turned out to be a great choice of teacher at the right time. </p>

<p>Anyway, for piano, even if the actual audition ends up being 10 - 15 mins, the amount of music required to be learned/memorized is often quite large. My child started working on the audition repertoire no later than beginning of 11th grade. So while it is easy yet annoying to nag someone to get a letter of recommendation out, one has to be able to trust that the teacher is attending (over an extended period of time) to the process of helping the student prepare for the auditions. I see now that there probably are many excellent piano teachers who would not necessarily be great at or even feel comfortable with the prospect of working with a student who is planning to do college auditions. I think the first teacher was relatively laid back and not really used to this since most of that teacher’s students were not headed for college auditions to major in music. </p>

<p>Anyway, I just wanted to mention that there is a lot of organization/time management/attention to detail and strategic planning beyond the actual teaching involved in helping a student learn the piano repertoire for college auditions, and it is important that the teacher is accustomed to and comfortable with that kind of added responsibility. </p>

<p>By the way it happened that neither of these two great but very different teachers encouraged involvement in competitions (they both found it distasteful for piano to be treated as a sport) but both encouraged participation in music festivals and summer programs.</p>

<p>Thanks all for your very thoughtful replies and good ideas. My D’s situation is that she is the most advanced student in a studio of mostly younger kids. The event that she was not signed up for was a recital of students from the local music teacher’s organization (trying to give her a performance opportunity where she would not be the big fish in the small pond). The teacher missed the deadline. D is very disappointed and of course it’s not the end of the world…there’s another recital a month from now. On the other hand, the teacher said that this was new to him and that’s why he didn’t know about the deadline. I think because he hasn’t had a student that wanted to study music before, every situation we encounter will be new and we run the risk of this happening again and in more important situations.</p>

<p>Rigaudon, it rings very true when you said that “there is a lot of organization/time management/attention to detail and strategic planning beyond the actual teaching involved in helping a student learn the piano repertoire for college auditions, and it is important that the teacher is accustomed to and comfortable with that kind of added responsibility.” Definitely we don’t have someone who is accustomed to that situation. If anything, he has less time now as his studio expands (with younger kids).</p>

<p>On the other hand, he has exposed her to composing, welcomed her saxophone-playing, had her accompany other students, and encouraged her even to sing her own song in the talent show at school. She has a breadth of experience and joy in music that she might not have had with a more narrowly focused teacher (also doesn’t do competitions).</p>

<p>Something to ponder. Thanks again for everyone’s input. If you have more, I would love to hear it!</p>

<p>I think it is really helpful if a teacher knows about different programs (summer and otherwise), but it isn’t a requirement. However, I do think that a teacher who knows about appropriate repertoire, and how to begin the rather large task of teaching/helping student learn that repertoire, is extremely important. As Rigaudon mentions, depending on where she is applying, your D could have to learn and memorize probably 40-60 minutes of music, only to play 15-20 minutes at the audition (sometimes much more, but this is the usual amount). It’s a fairly large undertaking!</p>

<p>At the stage of your D, the students really need a very experienced teacher helping to select repertoire, to ensure that big, splashy “over their head” pieces aren’t being chosen (my son had a piece in mind that he wanted to play for auditions, which his teacher wisely told him he was not ready to play yet; he finally began working on it second semester of sophomore year—in college!). Teachers should know and understand how to showcase their students’ talents and gifts, but not to push them to play beyond their current ability (I have seen this quite a lot, actually).</p>

<p>I might ask the teacher now, what kind of pieces he suggests for repertoire. Feel free to run the repertoire by members of this board, because a lot of us have been through the process with our kids (on piano too). Different programs will require repertoire of varying degrees of difficulty; the most difficult programs requiring five different pieces from different eras, including a full sonata (and a prescreen to even be invited to audition!). Less competitive programs might only require a movement, and three pieces total. Some don’t require complete memorization or a prescreen. So, it really depends on your D’s level. But once you know that, you want the repertoire to be extremely well selected to highlight her current ability and potential.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Rigaudon, I don’t see that you have the PM feature on, but if you want to PM me, I’d love to know where your son ended up!</p>

<p>My compliments to everyone posting on this thread - very thoughtful, useful advice (across instruments/Voice, too)</p>

<p>Yes, thanks to everyone who has posted here. I have taken notes from literally every post made above. I am learning a lot. Unfortunately, there is no local community of other parents of serious HS musicians that I know of – this HS is all about sports, and even kids that are interested in music are discouraged by their parents against pursuing it in college. So you ARE my community, and I’m very thankful that this forum is here!
What I have learned:

  • D is making significant progress and being challenged – check<br>
  • handle as many deadlines as possible myself, and ask teacher to let me handle more of them
  • get several copies of a generic recommendation letter, or at least feed well-marked envelopes to him at the appropriate times
  • consider working with more than one teacher
  • be aware that beyond learning the pieces, D should be learning about how to keep old material fresh, how to mentally prepare for auditions (her lack of competition experience here worries me here), and not play material that is too far beyond her (that may be a tough one too).
    It sounds like her repertoire is fairly on-target, with the memorized pieces from the five eras, the full sonata, the etude, etc. But in the end will she play them well enough to pull off a really great audition?? That may be the difference that the right teacher helps provide.
    Thanks again to all. If any posters above have students majoring in piano, I’d like to know where they are now!</p>

<p>I would not worry about the lack of competition experience as long as your daughter has performance experience. As others have mentioned, many teachers do not believe that competitions are healthy for musicians and especially for young developing musicians. The audition is just a performance for a relatively small and very discerning audience. Students who view their auditions as an opportunity to share their music with others are apt to do better than those who view the audition as a competition.</p>

<p>Performance experience can come in a variety of ways: playing for the relatives; small house recitals for friends and other invited guests; playing in nursing homes or at church; year-end teacher studio recitals; school variety nights. Sometimes you need to create a couple of these opportunities if you find there are not enough; however, many students are run off their feet with so many performances, that they try to shed them rather than accumulate them.</p>

<p>If you are concerned about your daughter having limited performance experience prior to her auditions, then be certain to schedule one or more recitals of the audition repertoire. You could do these in your living room and squeeze in as many people as possible, or in a local church that will give you a free or cheap rental. Ask your daughter’s teacher if he/she could schedule a studio class/recital prior to auditions; such a class, usually involves a handful of other students and the teacher: if your daughter is the most advanced student in the studio, then it would be great for the other students to hear her.</p>

<p>Also, you could schedule a couple of sample lessons. Usually these are done primarily to find out if a teacher is a good fit. Another benefit of them is that they give the student an informal type of trial audition or at least more experience playing for good ears.</p>

<p>Be certain to read some of the threads about working with more than one teacher: it can be tricky and has its pros and cons.</p>

<p>Thank you, Violindad! I did not realize there were other threads about working with more than one teacher. Lots of reading material for me here in this forum!</p>

<p>A good music teacher (if we are talking about guiding a student towards admission to a music program for college, LAC or conservatory) needs to have several things based on what I am seeing as our child progresses:</p>

<p>-Obviously, they need to have demonstrated the ability to teach at a high level, there are plenty of community music teachers, even those who have gone through relatively high level programs themselves, who may not really know or understand what the requirements are today or the level (and on piano, it is way, way up there). One way to determine this is if they have had experience with guiding other students into a high level music program recently; another might be if they themselves have graduated recently from such a program, or even taught in that kind of environment. </p>

<p>-A good teacher also can realistically measure a students progress against where they need to be for auditions. I agree with others, a student probably should be ready with their audition repertoire by the spring of 11th grade-not chosen, but already worked up to as full a level as possible (and admissions people from some high level schools say that, including on the website). I don’t think the teacher should be totally responsible for determining the repertoire, it should be up to the student to look up the requirements for each program, determine what you need to fulfill those requirements in toto, and then figure out what pieces to work on with the teacher, based on the students strengths/weaknesses to fulfill them. </p>

<p>-A good teacher also has a decent knowledge of summer programs and local performance opportunities and can help the student decide whether a competition or summer festival looks promising (though it is still the student’s responsibility to look into this as well, no teacher knows everything, they can’t). </p>

<p>-A good teacher IMO also knows their limitations, and instead of trying to be all knowledgeable, is willing to say “I don’t know” or more importantly, if they feel that they may not be able to take the student all the way, help find a new teacher or find one that can work with them to fill in the gaps. </p>

<p>This on top of the obvious one, a teacher that challenges the student and more importantly, doesn’t believe that quantity=quality but rather then pushing the student forward to higher and higher level repertoire, makes sure that the technical basis is there before moving on.Seems like a no brainer, but it isn’t, there are teachers who believe the goal is to get to the highest level protocol as quickly as possible, and IME that doesn’t work well. </p>

<p>I agree with others, that it is still up to the student and their family to make sure that stuff gets done on time and to do most of the legwork, whether it is audition and other requirements of a particular program, application deadlines are met, researching performance opportunities and summer programs, etc. And if you need a letter of recommendation from a teacher for a summer program or for an admissions package, and need it by X date, then it is up to the student/family to remind the teacher well before and make sure it gets out before that date, while it would be nice if the teacher remembered on their own to do it, they are human and can forget or get swamped.</p>

<p>These may be worth a look through. I did not bother to link the teacher/lesson threads dealing with sample/trial lessons, studio assignments and other related questions. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/391801-importance-master-teacher.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/391801-importance-master-teacher.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/507857-trying-find-new-teacher.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/507857-trying-find-new-teacher.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/492876-teacher-advice.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/492876-teacher-advice.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/413843-what-if-you-dont-get-along-your-teacher.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/413843-what-if-you-dont-get-along-your-teacher.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/392501-new-teacher-advice.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/392501-new-teacher-advice.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/314448-changing-voice-teacher.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/314448-changing-voice-teacher.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/390796-does-phenomenal-applied-teacher-really-trump-everything.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/390796-does-phenomenal-applied-teacher-really-trump-everything.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hopefully this doesn’t violate the TOS (if it does, apologies to the moderators if they have to delete this), but I couldn’t resist:</p>

<p>[The</a> 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T. (1953) - Plot Summary](<a href=“http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045464/plotsummary]The”>The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T. (1953) - Plot - IMDb)</p>

<p>I like the part about having cells and an electric fence around it…know at least a few music teachers who would approve <em>lol</em>.</p>