<p>applicannot, you do realize that you are in the wrong thread :)</p>
<p>< I assume that they pay somewhere north of 40% of that income in taxes.></p>
<p>I am sure that they pay a lot less in taxes considering the deductions that they most probably claim.</p>
<p>Deductions get phased out around $170K.</p>
<p>Bay, your insight may indeed reflect what actually happens, but I personally resist (and possibly resent) the notion that socioeconomic class in actuality has a lot to do with it – at least, it doesn’t have to be that way. I think parental attitudes towards ‘what’s possible’ and the value placed on the life of the mind have more influence on whether or not a child learns to love learning. Why are we always so tempted to give our children MATERIAL advantages…but spend so much time working to finance same that we aren’t always there to give them the SPIRITUAL advantages…
Funny story about that…when I moved here to ultimately marry my American husband, he forewarned me that his “divorce house” was within city limits and that I might be shocked (eg. appalled) at the situation of U.S. urban schools (which yes, I am…and for which I blame a combination of state-rights and taxation “not-in-my-back-yard” attitudes). He suggested we consider purchasing a home in the suburbs. I declined, as I am highly fond of urban living and wished instead to live within our means (which are slightly unpredictable as we are in business in creative arts…) and in essence, avoid being house-poor at our collective ages. S. was admitted to a gifted and talented program, so yes, we did capitalize on all available opportunities, and yes, the GT program does kind of defy the “public education” attitude I formerly held. But I do feel he learned a few things in his highly urban school system that children in the suburban areas do not always have an opportunity to learn: He has had to learn how to advocate for resources. He has had to learn to lobby for change at the school and district level. He has learned that infrastructure, programming and classroom infrastructure is neither free or always available, nor should it be taken for granted or critical to one’s ultimate performance. He has learned how to be resourceful and a good steward of available resources – to navigate public transportation; navigate different lifestyles; negotiate cultural difference and still retain his voice and authenticity. Most importantly, he has learned to really appreciate what he does have, and to put in what’s missing where he can.
He was accepted to his “dream school” (U of M, which he chose over privates for both the program and the diversity) with scholarship, and hopeful will make good use of this awesome opportunity.
So while you may be right in general, you are not correct specifically, and I hope people continue to prove you wrong : )
(Said wryly, in partial jest.)</p>
<p>Sueinphiily, given that your son is a young male adult, he is doing very well. My knuckleheads still have a way to go before they get to where he is. I’m trying to get through the oldest one’s thick head that getting unemployment benefits is NOT hitting the lottery!</p>
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<p>Huh? I haven’t posted for pages.</p>
<p><<unemployment benefits=“” is=“” not=“” hitting=“” the=“” lottery=“”>></unemployment></p>
<p>The absolute LOWEST point of my adult life, was the day I went into my office 2 weeks after giving birth to my son. I was there to collect my paycheck. My boss told me I was getting laid off and would be unemployed after my maternity benefits (60% of pay for 8 weeks - I had a c-section) ran out. </p>
<p>So there I was with a newborn, a paycheck and an uncertain future. As I stood in the unemployment line on Jan 2, 1990, with a cranky infant in my arms, I wondered to myself what the heck I had been thinking when I decided to have my son and raise him alone. The next months were a whirlwind. When my unemployment ran out after 6 months, I could no longer afford my Cobra payments. I had already been getting WIC (cereal, juice, milk, peanut butter, etc). So I headed to the welfare office to sign up for medicaid and food stamps. I did not have full time employment for 18 months after losing my job. And I still got federal benefits for a couple of years because my income was so low (this was working as a FEDERAL employee!) Because I had been FRUGAL before my son was born, I was able to pay my bills out of savings and never got into any debt. It took me 8+ years to get back to my salary level that I left in 1989 (32K). Yet, I was NEVER in debt or behind on any bills. Nobody starved and we had a roof over our head. </p>
<p>Guess what, I don’t live much different today than I did in the leanest of times. I was at a concert last night where I refused to pay $4.50 for a bottle of water (after they denied me ability to bring in my own unsealed bottle). I drank out of a water fountain.</p>
<p>So maybe my perspective is slanted. </p>
<p>The Rolling stones said it well, “You can’t always get what you want,
And if you try sometime, you find You get what you need”</p>
<p>
I agree with this … and I do not think the OP’s original post had any negative attitude at all …it was just naive … and asked in an arena that seemed to ignore the realities of the other posters.</p>
<p>When I wrote my original post I almost wrote about this situation which I think has some parallels. My daughter took the bus to the accepted students weekend at her school and I dropped her off. She was waiting in line to get on the bus (50 people plus in line) and to the side was a very short line (2-3 people). The bus folks came out and said this bus was full and they would get another one and walked off with answering any questions. The first person in the short line turned to the person next to her and asked things like … "what’s happening? are the lines moving? I paid to be in the priority line are they going to honor it? Are these fair questions … absolutely, I would have the same questions. Why am I wasting all your time on this story … who was the person next to her to whom she asked the question? The person next to her was one of the folks in the long line as it snaked around probably about 40th in-line … I really doubt the person 40th in-line of the regular line and with her own concerns had a lot of empathy for the plight of the person in front of the priority line … no matter how legitimate the questions are.</p>
<p> I think a lot of the reaction here was the ‘tone’ we sensed</p>
<p>This is the crux of the issue from my perspective. That tone was not sensed, it was presumed. There was nothing in any of OPs posts that indicated a sense of entitlement or whining. </p>
<p>Since some are sharing life experiences, Ill share mine. I apologize up front for the length. We are what most would consider upper middle class (~200K). Much of my frustration while reading these threads comes from the fact that were supposed to feel lucky for our situation. That were where we are because life showered us with benefits unavailable to others. We have reached this state as follows. </p>
<p>We are a 2-income family. Both W and I are 1st generation college graduates from blue-collar families. I graduated with a comp sci degree back in the mid 80s. I still work for the same company I started with out of college. Thanks to the power of compounding, 25 years of small annual raises have led to a nice salary at this point. W stayed home once our oldest was born until our youngest reached school age. During that span she took graduate courses in education in order to get a job as a teacher which synched her schedule with that of the kids. So we lived on one salary (while paying for Ws grad courses) for ~8 years. We gladly chose this path as we felt it was best for the kids. </p>
<p>The only luck in my life came on the day when W and I started working for the same company after graduating, giving us the opportunity to meet. Everything else came as a result of choices we made. </p>
<p>1) I have actively kept myself relevant and necessary to my employer so that I can weather downturns. While I could have bailed in the 90s and chased an internet startup job, I chose to stick with the stability of staying with a large company.<br>
2) We stayed together! We resisted any temptations to stray, put each other and our children first. It always amazes that people dont realize what a positive economic impact this has.
3) We resisted over-leveraging in the past 10 years. When we went for a HELOC, and the bank pushed an insane loan on us, we chose to be responsible and only took out a line that seemed reasonable. So were not underwater now. </p>
<p>I can go on, but thats enough. Bottom line is that we were not raised in the lap of luxury and much of our position in life is based on conscious life decisions weve made. Hate to sound old-fashioned and even corny, but values like commitment, loyalty, and responsibility have had more impact on our financial success than good fortune. </p>
<p>Please dont take this as those with lesser incomes dont exercise these values. Everyone has their own journey. Just stop assuming that upper middle class people are living large.</p>
<p>sorry i’m confused, (admit i havent read every post) but going bact to original OP. If you know that you will not qualify for financial aid, do you have to go through the hassle of the fafsa app? as there doesnt seem to be a consensus is it something you just ask admissions? even though we will not qualify for financial need-based aid, my son will be applying for merit aid and scholarships (any thing helps and honestly he has worked hard for his grades and accomplishments and will apply for those he qualifies for) I think i am reading here that some merit aid will still require a fafsa be filed even if need not considered??</p>
<p>[Please don’t take this as “those with lesser incomes don’t exercise these values”.]</p>
<p>I suspect that those harping on the OP would feel just as offended as the OP (and many others) if this sentiment was presumed upon them.</p>
<p>Some schools require the FAFSA for merit aid and some don’t. The information as to whether or not they need it may be found on their website. If you can’t find the information there, then you could contact the Financial Aid office.</p>
<p>thanks bceagle! i hope we dont have to do it. we are self employed and if we end of being one of the ones selected for verification (which i think is stupid if you dont qualify…but have heard it happens…) it is such a pain ( ie mortgage and loan processes for self employed) . We did file one for our oldest and didnt qualify, so i never did a renewal one on him.
i guess as we get closer to app time, i will just have to look more closely at the requirements of each school</p>
<p><<any chance=“” of=“” getting=“” any=“” assistance?=“” i’m=“” not=“” looking=“” for=“” a=“” free=“” ride,=“” just=“” little=“” help=“” (if=“” he=“” goes=“” to=“” public=“” school=“” in-state,=“” we=“” would=“” have=“” no=“” problem=“” paying=“” full.)=“” and,=“” unfortunately,=“” almost=“” none=“” the=“” schools=“” that=“” is=“” interested=“” in=“” give=“” merit=“” aid.=“”>></any></p>
<p>the OP answered their own question w/o realizing it. No the fafsa won’t help you get merit aid if the schools you are applying to don’t offer it.</p>
<p>Face it, you put the OP’s numbers in Fafsa and out is going spit an EFC over the COA at every college. It you are applying to schools that offer NEED BASED AID ONLY, then the fafsa is a waste of time.</p>
<p>The ‘some help’ the OP was looking for was not merit aid, and NO, you won’t get federal aid (except the stafford loan that the OP has stated they don’t want to do) at that income level.</p>
<p><< I assume that they pay somewhere north of 40% of that income in taxes.></p>
<p>I am sure that they pay a lot less in taxes considering the deductions that they most probably claim. ></p>
<p>You can think of the cost of higher education as another tax on higher incomes,to the extent you don’t get financial aid.</p>
<p>Goru #269</p>
<p>Very well put.</p>
<p>"Since some are sharing life experiences, Ill share mine. I apologize up front for the length. We are what most would consider upper middle class (~200K). Much of my frustration while reading these threads comes from the fact that were supposed to feel lucky for our situation. That were where we are because life showered us with benefits unavailable to others. "</p>
<p>Yes, you should feel lucky. I am, at the moment, living in a lower middle class family, and I feel very lucky for my situation. For one, you were born in a 1st world country. You never starved, you never went without water, you had a home, and you actually had the chance at an education. You didn’t have to spend your entire childhood working to support your family; you were able to attend school. Not only that, but you actually had the chance to attend college. I’m not going to bother listing any other reasons, as this all should be pretty obvious.</p>
<p>^^
Then everyone on CC is lucky.</p>
<p>Yes, everyone on CC IS lucky. So few seem to realize it, though!</p>
<p>If you wake up 1.) with clean water available to you; 2.) with adequate food to eat; 3.) with a roof over your head; and 4.) able to read, you are actually quite well-off in the scheme of things.</p>
<p>So, as often on these threads, the message is lost in the words. It is the perception that those in middle or upper middle class have had greater fortune that i take exception with. </p>
<p>Maybe I should have said, “Much of my frustration while reading these threads comes from the fact that were supposed to feel that we’ve been luckier than those who are harping on the OP”. </p>
<p>For the record, I’m grateful to be born in America, and for all of the fortunes that you list. </p>
<p>Posting on threads is a funny business. Sometimes, i thiink its almost impossible to get one’s point across. Much of what i wrote was apparently lost because i offended some right off the bat with the “lucky” line.</p>