For future reference, the time to take action to avoid this situation was before the house was re-titled. At that point, the “sell” siblings could probably have forced the executor to sell, unless the clear terms of the will or trust forbade it, After the retitling, it’s much more difficult.
Sorry for your loss.
My dad has a fair amount of property that would be a problem to some extent except that siblings are pretty much on the same page fortunately. Read: Nobody really needs the money so we can afford to be generous with each other
." It took literally years for our relationship to recover"
Remember that this happens on a daily basis to more families than you can count. Life is short. Pick your battles.
Know that unless you really need the money–sometimes it’s not worth it. Getting in a money war over something of a windfall can be very foolish in time and angst. Take a reasonable offer and get out.
I know this is a condo but was it his primary residence? There are often emotional attachments that need to be dealt with in these cases.
@Regretful–“My sister wanted to buy me put and flip the house. I really felt and continue to do so today that my father would not one of us to benefit financially more from the house than another.”
You would both benefit equally to flip the house and split the profit which could be substantially higher. You say the house was in disrepair–it needs fixing up. Maybe it would be better to follow your sister’s footsteps.
The house has long been sold. She. Only wanted to flip if I was out of the equation. To be fair to her I did not live in the area and would not have been able to help with managing the contractors.
My mom’s will reads something like this:
'The house is to be listed within 3 months of my death by a local big name real estate company a, b, or c. The proceeds will be divided equally between the children." Her intent is to avoid any conflicts between us kids.
Hope it works…
We had a grandparent recently die here too. Will clearly states that all real estate will be sold. It doesn’t prevent the family from buying the place…but it clearly doesn’t put anyone in the position of joint ownership…which is a headache.
Not sure what the issue would be. If she bought you out immediately for a fair price (considering the condition at the time), you would have gotten your fair share of the value and not have had to deal with it. Any profits from flipping the house after renovating it would then have been from her additional effort and cost in dealing with the renovations, contractors, etc…
^ presumably, she’d pay for the reno. For both to profit, both would need to invest in the rehab. Then they could argue over what’s done, to what extent, and at what cost.
FIL and his two siblings inherited their parents’ FL condo. As he lives across the country, he agreed to have sibs buy him out. One of the two eventually bought out the other and kept it for them self.
I honestly don’t remember if it was at the value in the estate or at another assessed price. Probably at whatever was the lowest value as that’s the way they operate. No arguments at all over it.
My condolences on the loss of your father. I would see an estate lawyer and follow through with his advice. My neighbor passed away and left her home to her two daughters. The home was free of any debt. Long story short one daughter ended up embezzling from her sister. We all like to think we are above it all, but greed is a horrible cancer. If you don’t want the headache associated with the condo, you should get out. Explain to your siblings. They should appreciate your honesty and hopefully all three of you can come to an agreement. Best of luck.
My late FIL left his property to his 3 sons equally, except that one brother was named executor and he was also named trustee for the 3rd brother, who has “issues” that have been known to affect his judgement.
The regular house was sold shortly before or right around the time he died, IIRC, because he moved into an assisted living place. Everyone agreed on that.
That left the vacation house, originally purchased by FIL’s parents. FIL and MIL had bought out his sibling in the 80s, when they wanted to sell it in order to buy a place in FL. Everyone was very attached to this property, which was waterfront on Lake Michigan. The three brothers put it into an LLC and rented it out most of the time, which paid for taxes and upkeep. The executor brother and family got to use the house several weeks per year–they live 5 hrs away from it–we never did because it was too difficult and expensive for us to get there at that time. We wanted to sell out our share when S was going to college, since most of his FA awards assumed that we could do so and our EFC was thus equal to our actual income at the time: an obvious no-go. Trustee brother refused to buy us out, although they could have. Couldn’t sell our share. He also refused to sell or buy out other brother when he was losing his house to foreclosure.
Wait and see, I told H, he will refuse to sell until THEY want the money. Sure enough, last year he insisted on selling. Moreover, he refused to allow H to buy out his share. Insisted on selling the whole property. He claimed that this was his fiduciary responsibility to 3rd brother. This was BS. H made it clear that he would hire a management company to deal with the vacation rentals. We had earlier proven our willingness to help/stand behind 3rd brother by having him come to live with us for a number of months after he lost his house: we were prepared for it to be permanent if necessary. No such offer from executor brother, of course. It almost seemed spiteful. As we expected, executor brother and wife bought a condo in the area at a place where their best friends live.
“My mom’s will reads something like this:
'The house is to be listed within 3 months of my death by a local big name real estate company a, b, or c. The proceeds will be divided equally between the children.” Her intent is to avoid any conflicts between us kids."
Just wondering what happens when the real estate market either tanks or on a hot streak which makes 3 months not such a good financial idea.
The answer to this question can be very state law dependent, that’s why you need to talk to a lawyer.
The Executor or Trustee might still have authority over this property depending on your facts AND also depending on your state law. IF the Executor/Trustee still has authority, the terms of the Will/Trust will govern, and if silent, then his/her decision will govern.
If the property is not governed by the Executor/Trustee, then you have the legal right to a partition action in court which will require the property to be sold in X amount of time. As a part of that partition action you can ask the court to appoint a trustee who will make decisions relating to the maintenance of the property and other things. Partition actions are expensive (lawyers, appraisers) and most likely will take years before a decision is made. Also, properties sold under the weight of a partition action oftentimes end up selling at a significantly reduced price because word gets out about your need to sell, and also it can be a hassle for the buyers to deal with a seller who has internal problems.
So if you don’t have an Executor/Trustee to deal with this, you are usually much better advised to try to work this out between yourselves.
About what happens if your in-laws pay for an improvement…this is a matter of state law whether they will get any of their money back at the time of sale, and if so, what that looks like (an increased % of the sales price, or a return of their investment). My guess is they would be entitled to some money, based on the judge’s determination of how much that improvement increased the value of the property, but you really need to know the laws of your individual state.
I’m curious why they want to make improvements? Is this an issue of you all wanting to sell, and disagree whether its best to sell “as is” or fixed up? If so, what about agreeing to get a couple of real estate brokers to go in there and give you advice as to what the difference in sales price would be “as is” vs fixed, and difference in length of time to market (you have to pay carrying costs every month), and then get some estimates from contractors. This should give you all an idea of whether it’s worth it or not to do the work. And if one or more of you can’t afford to do it, maybe the others could pay for it with an agreement to get reimbursed out of the sales proceeds.
If they want to make improvements because they want to keep it, maybe they can buy you out for fair market value less brokerage fees, or vice-versa.
@gouf78 Good question in post 31. I do not know the answer. I assume my mom’s intent is to not have things drag on and to not have any squabbles or put one of us in an uncomfortable situation by having some buy out others.
It took the market 3 years to recover in the last crash. Ask yourself - how long are you willing to wait to sell the place? If you are patient, maybe you and your sibs can bring the issue up with your mom - gently.
“or put one of us in an uncomfortable situation by having some buy out others.”
That’s sort of the name of the game in real estate. Someone is always the buyer or seller. Rather a stranger get a fire sale price or make your potential profit?
I know that your mom is doing her best to avoid family squabbles (which may be best but I don’t know your family) but she needs to see an attorney to find out the real ramifications of her will and the way it is worded.
Wills are a minefield of unintended consequences.
There can be a huge natural difference between being forced to list in the dead of winter vs waiting to enter the market in summer, when families move (before the new school year starts.) The issue seems to be calling it “3 months” (which can be a rather short interval, especially if there are other issues or requirements that delay moving ahead with the estate.)
Afaik, unless it’s changed, in some states, there is no requirement an attorney specialize in some particular aspect of law. I’d want to be sure whoever advised her is truly up on how estates work.
For anyone thinking about leaving property to multiple folks…I will again suggest a book called “Saving the Family Cottage”. It is a MUST read for anyone considering this type of bequest. It gives multiple ways to deal,with those family homes…and ways that will not hinder anyone.
It’s an interesting and easy read.
We didn’t hear about it until it was too late…inlaws created a trust…but we graciously asked to be excluded…and they agreed. They didn’t have to remove us…but they did.
@mathmom would you care to comment about this book?
@thumper1 gave me her copy of the book. The book covers the possibilities in easy to read language. Definitely worth reading! At the very least you’ll understand the basics of the various kinds of trusts and being tenants in common vs joint tenancy.
I’m involved with a property that when my Aunt passes away could have eight owners all with differing proportions. My Mom and my Aunt were going to put it into a conservation trust before my mother passed away, but that didn’t happen. It’s worth a bundle, but it’s also a huge expense, mostly taxes but also upkeep, but at the same time, I’m not thrilled about having use of the cottage for only another 20 years. Luckily in general my brothers and I are on the same page about the property that we’ve inherited.
Even when it looks like everything should be smooth sailing, surprises can pop up. My brother and I were co-beneficiaries and co-trustees after my mom passed away. She lived in a condo that, we thought, was totally in the name of her trust. We both agreed to sell; there were a few points of discussion along the way but after six months we got a very nice offer. When the title search came back, we learned:
All of those changes were done when my father passed away 17 years earlier to put the condo in Mom’s trust and an equivalent value of securities in Dad’s trust. There were a few tense days where we didn’t know if this could all get straightened out and allow the title insurance to be issued before closing. But our real estate lawyer had worked with the title company a lot and got it all cleared through with a bunch of extra legal paperwork.