<p>Here we go again. I’m beginning to wonder if Sen. Obama has any close (and I mean honestly close and not just for appearance) friendships with people that respect all races without such radical ideas and disdain toward others. He’s a brilliant man but why has he chosen such radical people to associate with over the years? I’d like to hear your opinions.</p>
<p>Because he needed credibility in the Chicago political establishment when he was running for the Illinois senate. He is an opportunist like all politicians. </p>
<p>This kind of blame game is not helping anyone. What about the poor white kids in Appalachia, and poor Asians? A constructive argument is to encourage people to make the best out their situation. There are fewer and fewer black men (and qualified poor people of all races) going to college every year, and we need to come up with solutions to address this problem.</p>
<p>For someone who has cast himself (helped tremendously by the media) as a post racial candidate, there is very little in his life for the past 20 years to confirm it.</p>
<p>I knew nothing about Father Pfleger, so I checked Wikipedia: [Michael</a> Pfleger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pfleger]Michael”>Michael Pfleger - Wikipedia) You should do the same. Then watch Pfleger’s comment, Obama’s response to it, and Pfleger’s response to that.</p>
<p>I’d be interested to see if you come away from that repeating the opinions you posted above after performing that exercise.</p>
<p>Kluge, I don’t understand what you mean by your statements. Are you saying that it is alright for him to say what he said? Why should he mention Hillary in his sermons? It just does not make sense to me at all. </p>
<p>Yes, I still have the same opinions about him. He is part of the reasons I don’t belong to any church. I think places of worship should be about worship, doing good, and standing up for what is right. It should not be a platform to denigrate other people, and that is exactly what he was doing. </p>
<p>I volunteer a lot for a lot of causes, and I don’t stand on the pulpit and mock other people. Doing good in the community does not give anyone the license to insult other people.</p>
<p>I’ve read about Father Pfleger and he’s been on my radar screen for a while. I’m not sure that there’s too much of a connection betwen him and Obama, though. I’ve always thought of it as a couple of degrees of separation. Could be wrong, though . . .</p>
<p>Tega–why would Kluge be saying it’s okay?</p>
<p>According to the Wiki article (which I also just googled cuz I had no knowledge of this), Pfleger, who has fought for his vision of social justice in ways you may or may not agree with but are plainly motivated by his reading of the Gospel, said something dumb. Obama called him on it, and he agreed it was dumb and apologized. Seems kind of cut and dried to me.</p>
<p>Still don’t get it. Obama did not seek endorsements from either Wright or Pfleger. MCain spent more than a year seeking the endorsements of Hagee and Parsley, his two “spiritual advisors”, and received them. What’s the deal?</p>
<ul>
<li>yawn*</li>
</ul>
<p>Do you wonder if the Clinton campaign planted this? Reeks of desperation to me…</p>
<p>Then again, could be the right wing conspiracy. :o</p>
<p>My guess is that no one cares at this point. I don’t.</p>
<p>The Reverend Pfleger has throughout his lifetime selflessly tried to improve lives…in the far-left way. But left or right one cannot dispute his excellent intentions: to improve real lives in the community he serves.</p>
<p>The episode on Sunday also shows what can occur on the freelance margins of political-spiritual teaching. There is a reason that there are traditions and customs in religions that those in positions of authority need to submit to, as is true in most institutions. And here is the fatal flaw and seductive power of liberation theology: the political ‘jones’ corrupts the spiritual message. The same occurs on the far right, as evinced in the corrupt political thinking of the Rev Hagee.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I do not doubt that any of these men, including Rev Wright and Hagee, have the best intentions of their flock at heart and almost certainly improve lives lived on a day to day basis. But, as the saying goes, power corrupts and once the love of power sets in the desire for absolute power will corrupt absolutely. And politics is all about power; humility will get you run-over.</p>
<p>What Pfleger said on Sunday and the way he said it should induce him, upon reflection, to take a sabbatical from his ministry and humbly submit to the counseling of his church – clearly he needs it; because he has crossed the line and corrupted his otherwise good soul and good works with the dirty corruption of power and politics.</p>
<p>This is setting aside the oft repeated innuendo of those around Senator Obama that Hillary Clinton is, at heart, a racist. Rev Pfleger, to my mind merely took these accusations to the level of performance art.</p>
<p>Curiously, I doubt that these same people will use the same tactic against Sen McCain, And I wonder why.</p>
<p>But there are significant differences. McCain sought, and apparently hard, to exploit Hagee and Parsley’s religious popularity for specifically political advantage. The same cannot be said of Obama.</p>
<p>I am in Chicago…I have always associated Father Pfleger with
fighting booze and menthol cigarette advertising targeted at
blacks, getting guns off the street, stuff like that. I was taken
aback and disappointed to hear these comments. It doesn’t
cancel out all the good he’s done, for decades.</p>
<p>If you had seen the video of his “sermon” (available on youtube), you would see a very racially divisive talk with howls of approval from the congregation - the same congregation that Obama has felt comfortable to be in for the last 20 years and to have his children involved with. Yet Obama is the one who is supposed to bring us together on race? Something’s wrong with this picture.</p>
<p>What mini said (twice, but with better evidence each time)</p>
<p>not that mini sought my endorsement, of course</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>funding father, go try filming the congregations when Hagee or Parsley speak.</p>
<p>They might just nod their heads politely and smile, or say Amen with pearly tones at the end of the sermon, but same thing.</p>
<p>I can’t believe I got drawn into this debate. Just remembered that McCain made a press announcement that he’d sent back Hagee’s endorsement after enjoying it for a season; and Obama spoke publicly that he was dropping Wright’s unsolicited support after being damanged by it.</p>
<p>How long do we discuss peoples’ relationships after a divorce? Apparently, forever. </p>
<p>And do we say it’s a measure of the man whom he chose to marry in the first place…or is it more significant for the present and future that they are broken up?</p>
<p>I do not beleive that either Barack Obama or John McCain have ever gone to any of these Reverends for political advice or historical perspective. It is disingenuous for anyone to act otherwise. It is mere political posturing and one-up manship. Beneath real political discourse.</p>
<p>I am pleased that McCain dissociated himself from Hagee. McCain does not attend Hagee’s church and has repudiated Hagee’s endorsement. There is a good deal of real distance there.</p>
<p>I also doubt that Barack has gone to Wright for his political wisdom, such as it is, but rather for his spiritual perspective and, perhaps, to get a leg-up networking the local scene. </p>
<p>It does seem, however, that Barack’s church is very far left as churches go, even as politics goes. </p>
<p>These things are complicated, but I would feel better if Barack took the time to explain his relationship to the church and to its politics. HIs is clearly a very political church. Not all are. His race speech was rhetorically powerful, but it did not really explain the why of it all. In some respects it came off as almost too good to be true, if that is possible</p>
<p>"funding father, go try filming the crowds when Hagee or Parsley speak.</p>
<p>They might just nod their heads politely and smile, or say Amen with pearly tones at the end of the sermon, but same thing."</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that what you say is true. But there is a world of difference in courting the vote of a group of people who you presumably disagree with on certain issues versus joining them for 20 years and exposing your children to them. If Obama had just appeared at Wright’s church and tried to get their vote, this would have been a non-issue. But he didn’t - he actually joined them for 20 years and sends his kids to Sunday School there.</p>
<p>If you don’t see the difference then there is no sense having any more discussions on this.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>He gave a public announcement about it and spent the next week on various talk shows discussing it. It included references to what he knew when, how he finally read the transcript of the Press Club meeting later in the day and strengthened his rebuke, how he and Michelle finally got to watch the Press Club on TV, and with regret decided to distance themselves from his views, saying he wasn’t the Wright he had met as a young man 20 years ago…</p>
<p>Don’t you remember all that?</p>
<p>After a week, he stopped taking reporters questions on it, since he’d answered it as fully as he felt he could, and needed to get back to campaign message in…I think it was Indiana right then.</p>
<p>“If you don’t see the difference then there is no sense having any more discussions on this.”</p>
<p>I DO see a difference. One - McCain - tried to exploit Hagee and Parsley’s hateful religious views for political advantage. The other - Obama - didn’t. BIG difference.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are congregants and congregants. Some show up twice a year, some come occasionally. Some sleep through sermons, although Barack isn’t one of them. Most thinking people disagree with specific points in the sermon (the whole idea is to awaken people’s thinking) but there are no exit polls to determine which element of the sermon is agreeable or not to each parishioner. </p>
<p>All send their kids to Sunday School. There are so many layers between a pastor and a Sunday School in a church that large that you could pad a mattress with them.</p>