Around this topic (not just here, all websites right now), I’m seeing a lot of “just take the kids with the highest scores and build your class that way…enough of this “holistic” approach” but the problem with that is 1) there are too many kids with perfect standardized scores/GPAs to admit in that fashion so it wouldn’t work anyway and 2) who wants to attend a school surrounded only by kids with 1600s and no other attributes.
I’m against having a flat out minimum for a test. My son didn’t test well, so his scores were in no way indicative of how well he would do in college. He graduated with honors, and received departmental honors along the way.
I can’t even imagine the heartbreak for the kids who didn’t know. The betrayal and loss of confidence they must be feeling now is going to haunt them forever. I will say all of this has made me feel much better about my own parenting! The worst I have done is make my D crazy with all my weepiness.
@damon30 I agree with @lindagaf that selectivity by grades alone, or testing alone (e.g., entrance exam), would end up with very Asian or very white environments. A good example is Stuyvesant High School (in New York City) which in 2013 had a student body of 72% Asian, 1% black, 2% Hispanic. It’s a really good school, but every method has its shortcomings. I am sure the wealthier parents pay for test preps for their kids in this case too, taking spots from others and preventing a level-playing field.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School#Demographics_and_alleged_discrimination
I think coaches and athletic staffs all over the country are fuming about this. There is a trust relationship between athletics and admissions. A coach has so many slots and carefully balance slots, scholarship dollars, and academic qualifications very carefully. They have to stick their neck out for the kid that may not have the best scores but are great athletes, and if that kid doesn’t come through in school they have less credibility with that admissions officer in the future. In minor sports they are also responsible for bringing in donors to the program. It doesn’t surprise me that some coaches might look at these slots as a commodity that could be used to help their program or themselves. In soccer many coaches have to come up with activities outside their collegiate teams like using free university facilities to run camps and tournaments to support their salary or program No doubt this will change everything on many campus athletic departments. I also think it would be very easy for a kid to not be noticed by admissions on this. Kids redshirt, get injured and don’t play, and may decide to quit the team, if it is only one kid here or there, it would be easy for an admissions officer not to know. But no doubt admissions and athletic directors will be hyper vigilant about this now. What is especially disturbing is the Senior Athletic Administrator at USC. That is a major position at at USC.
I think all the kids put on the waiting list at those schools where each of these kid were accepted and didn’t get in, at minimum should get their application fees refunded and it should be paid by the individuals who profited by these actions.
@girl19 " She scored a 34 with no extra time, but it ticks her off so much when her classmates get a 36 and are praised all over her school’s social media. "
I can one-up you here :- two years ago, a friend of mine’s kid got ‘sick’ during a couple of AP exams - the school put the tests in a drawer and allowed the kid to finish them a day or two later, when feeling better - of course, the kid aced those tests - due to already being familiar with them!!!
Lol, not like it matters. They said in the NBC article: “‘There can be no separate college admission for the wealthy…’”.
Yet you can have your rich parents donate $millions and get in to elite colleges with crappy stats/application.
Educational equality, amirite? (Capitalism ftw)
The problem with that is that these students HAD high scores. The issue is they only had them because the parents bought them. Going test only makes these situations more likely, not less.
The cheating parents managed to get disability accommodations for their (apparently) non-disabled kids. But I’m here to tell you, for people who try to get accommodations honestly, it’s hard. My son is now in college, with a reduced course load and extra time for tests. He truly has disabilities. But we didn’t have any special connections to get him accommodations for SATs and APs, so it was hard and expensive and time-consuming and sometimes we had to appeal.
From the Atlantic: “American Meritocracy Is Rotten to the Core”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/college-bribe-scandal-about-class-inequality/584797/
@gallentjill If the student had mediocre stats and was admitted to an Ivy they had to know that a fix was in.
Unpopular opinion warning: I’m fine with a dozen or so kids getting accepted along with their parent’s check for xx million dollars as long as; 1) the school is transparent about it, and 2) the money is used to support the rest of the student population with needed grant money.
@Nhatrang: Depends on where in Asia (I don’t have much experience with Africa). What experience with Asia do you have?
So what have we learned…
You can’t just buy your way into elite schools through traditional donations in the absence of test scores or some other hook (athletic recruit). I base this on the reality that all of those involved in this scandal had the financial wealth, initiative and motivation such that if cutting a check directly to the school was an effective option, they would have done so. Money and a willingness to spend it was not enough.
Instead they spent huge sums of money to fraudulently raise test scores and fabricate hooks. The system does largely work otherwise people wouldn’t have to risk jail time to circumvent its checks and balances. While obscene that it took place, people should not use these events to imply a corrupt system but instead identify it as what it is… criminal behavior by a small group. No matter the system in place individuals devoid of morality will cheat, lie and steal out of a sense of entitlement.
Somehow I think we knew that…
This reality should not reflect poorly upon or serve as fodder to cast aspersions on the vast majority of students at elites that got in based on hard work, integrity and intelligence.
Why assume that kids with high stats are all Asians or have no attributes or attend prep centers. This is not a given, just a stereotype used and promoted to justify holistic curtain and undermine academic merit.
@TomSrOfBoston I don’t think its that cut and dry. You have no idea how many kids and parents I have spoken with who see the outliers on Naviance and think that means their kids have a chance. Its even worse if you only look at the national scatterplots. Those parents and kids believe that their time working in a soup kitchen and singing in the choir makes them special and believe that maybe if they just have a good enough essay or great recommendations, they could easily be one of those dots. Here on CC we have all educated ourselves so much on the college process that its easy to forget where other people are starting.
Add to that the fact that some of these kids might have believed they actually earned those higher SAT scores.
Reading about this fiasco in the media and reading all the different viewpoints here make it even clearer and more pronounced that we have perhaps put too much emphasis on standardized testing not only at the college entry level but through all formal schooling. And the emphasis on the “near” perfect or “what a catch” student.
This is helicoptering to the very extreme level.
It is all is sort of sickening.
What if she had good stats and was admitted to an Ivy? Being touted, unbeknownst to herself, as a valuable athlete could pull a qualified student over the finish line when other similar students were rejected. We all know that there exists a huge pool of applicants who are great students, well qualified for Ivies, but unlikely to be accepted. But some of those students do end up accepted.
A good number of students admitted to Ivies are bright, hardworking and very lucky. A student whose parents cheated for her could think she is one of them.
@gallentjill I believe that you are underestimating some of these students ability to understand that mom and dad’s money talks.
Seriously? They didn’t fill out or even review their applications? They didn’t know how poorly they performed but how high their GPA and SATs are? Why rowing is their top EC?