Kids had to know if they were at all involved with their applications AND they got in as athletes, since they had to put the sport on their applications. Also, kids had to know if their GPAs were bumped up by ringers taking online classes.
The indictment docs are such entertaining reading as they have the recorded conversations. The Feds had Singer (ringleader) call his clients and tell them he was being audited. He needed to go through all the payments with his clients and make sure they had their ‘story straight’. Actually this was just getting the client to confirm all the payments.
B Isackson (one of the clients) was particularly unnerved by this. Here is an excerpt. Lol.
B. ISACKSON Oh, yeah. I’m just thinking, oh my God, because you’re thinking, does this
roll into something where, you know, if they get into the meat and potatoes, is this gonna be this-- be the front page story with everyone from Kleiner Perkins do whatever, getting these kids into school, and–
CW-1 Well, the, the person who’d be on the front page–
B. ISACKSON Well, I, I-- But if-- but they, they –
CW-1 Yes.
B. ISACKSON --went the meat and potatoes of it, which a-- which a guy would love to
have is, it’s so hard for these kids to get into college, and here’s-- look what-- look what’s going on behind the schemes, and then, you know, the, the embarrassment to everyone in the communities. Oh my God, it would just be-- Yeah. Ugh.
793 - But the vast majority at some elites don't get in based on hard work and intelligence. By the time you winnow out the legacies, the athletes and the well-connected, the percentage that are just kids with intelligence and hard work but no special hooks is rather small.
I wonder if it was William Macy, since he was not indicted?
@shortnuke My kid was not a recruited athlete, but she was on a national team in an Olympic sport that is not played in college. (She wrote about an experience related to her sport in her essay). Two of the colleges to which she applied called the governing body of her sport to check that she was on the national team in that sport. They also got the name of her coach and called her.
I understand that if a college coach is accepting a bribe, he/she is going to say that X student is legitimate and the admissions people will probably accept that. However, if it a kid alleges he was a high school
Sport star—call rhe high school and verify. After this scandal, it seems like more vigilance on the part of admissions offices might be necessary.
@abasket “This is helicoptering to the very extreme level.”
It’s more like “lawnmowing” – the new, worse version of helicoptering.
@TheBigChef Not every kid’s accomplishments get in the local paper. My kid was a recruited athlete and did get recognized for her high school teams, but not her club teams which was at a much higher level of play.
This whole thing is outrageous. Adcoms don’t google everyone - they have far less time than you would think to review and say yay or nay on an applicant. I am sure they check many, but only if they are on the radar as being odd or unusual. But I think this scandal will create a lot more accountability and fact checking than in the past.
Don’t know if it’s been posted yet, but here’s a list of all the people involved:
If some applicants indeed didn’t know what was on their application or transcript or resume then those morons are not even eligible for community colleges, let alone top colleges.
@Momto4kids “What kid today does not know that it is even slightly (lol) competitive to get into Stanford, Yale and the like? These kids knew and should be removed from the schools.” I am certain some knew, however, I do not believe they all knew. I know how much my kids hate me ‘interfering’ in their lives!
I am reminded of the times when, over the past few years I’ve sat back and fumed - “why him?” “why her?” “why not my kids?” I personally know one student, the child of an international superstar legend sports person, who gained admission to an elite Top20 (kid is genuinely a promising player but not an academic player), if the the kid is unable to keep-up on the academic playing field. What then? It was the parent’s name that got the kid in
There’s a well-known case of a 1980s UCLA athlete; came from nothing, dyslexic, couldn’t cope, turned to drugs and ended up committing manslaughter. Even back then, the judge, during his sentencing, blasted the entire college athletics recruiting system for failing unprepared and under qualified student athletes.
On the sunny side, that former UCLA athlete is now a fully functioning and productive member of society; happily married for almost 30 years, with two young sons starting their own college careers!
@mom2twogirls
I saw that too, but how can a kid not know something was up? If I had told my 16 yo son that he was taking the ACT with extra time due to a disability, then he would object! And if he was told he was going to Yale to play football and there was no football team at his high school and he never played football, he wouldn’t go along with that in any shape, form or fashion.
The kids HAD to know!
Oh, I see your subsequent comment where you state basically the same thing.
@CTTC I noticed that the majority of those indicted are from California.
I’m finding this scandal very disheartening. I’ve started lurking the CC boards, just to get basic info (my kids are in early Elementary). I’m starting to feel like what’s the point of my kids ever trying for any kind of elite school if many of the students were prepped beyond belief and had their applications curated by professionals, or even resorted to cheating? What does it say about the schools themselves or the whole endeavor?
“I Was a College Admissions Officer. This Is What I Saw.”
https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/college-cheating-scandal-an-admissions-officer-speaks-out.html
@Bromfield2 @shortnuke Vetting with sports can be as quick as a 60 sec google search. I mean if you state you are a ranked USTA tennis player → google the rankings! I think some admissions people at USC were very negligent to the point where they could be fired (if USC has any integrity).
Every USTA player has a USTA number. A quick check on the USTA website can verify everything. Takes two minutes.
Need to make a serious example of everyone involved to lessen the overall cheating “blatant and fringe”
- Jail time for all parents involved.
- Jail time for any students who knew.
- Strip admission status for any current applicants.
- Expulsion of any kids already in school.
- Void of any obtained diploma.
Any fine is a joke, Even if you fine them millions, they’re still going to end up with more that most of us have.
@TatinG: “Employers should recognize that the only reason private elite schools are elite is that they are the schools of the wealthy and well-connected, not that they are bastions of intelligence.”
Both, actually. Elite schools set aside sorts for the very brightest, wealthiest, most connected, disadvantaged, etc. to further their institutional goals. That is, to grow wealthier, greater in reputation, and also contribute to the country/world.
@Lindagaf:
“I am in two minds about holistic admissions. It’s intentions are good, and if it didn’t exist, how white or Asian would the elite colleges still be? I do mean that seriously, because the point of holistic admissions is, ideally, to level the field. It’s clearly not a perfect system though.”
That may be your ideal. Holistic admissions first came about to keep out Jews and to keep Ivies majority WASPish (read up the history).
It’s been kept to further institutional goals, but "leveling the playing is only one of them (and may not be the main one).
@SouthernHope: “1) there are too many kids with perfect standardized scores/GPAs to admit in that fashion so it wouldn’t work anyway and 2) who wants to attend a school surrounded only by kids with 1600s and no other attributes.”
- Use a lottery past a certain cutoff, then. Elite colleges would actually not see a drop in student body quality if they did so.
- Attitudes like yours is exactly why the current corruptible system is as it is.
Rich WASPs wanted to keep out Jews in the early 20th century so holistic admissions limited the numbers of Jews at Ivies back then.
These days, rich people like a diverse school but also one with some smart people but not too cut-throat or “boring” (so a school that looks more like Yale than Caltech), so Yale looks the way it does rather than like Caltech.
@skieurope I wonder does this thread hold the record for the number of posts in a 24 hour period.
@bronze2, wealthier families may buy better test prep for Stuy, but Stuy is overwhelmingly comprised of middle class, lower-middle, and poor kids. The truly wealthy simply buy their kids a place at a fancy private prep school rather than go through the process to get in to Stuy.
I was wondering, with all this talk of cheating on the ACT and SAT, if/how students cheat on AP tests. You’ve given me the answer. Fake an illness and take the test later (after you’ve had time to think through your answers). Has there ever been an AP cheating scandal exposed yet?