Hi!
This is my first post so please bear with me…
My S24 will be majoring in computer science at a LAC. He prefers small class size and access to professors. He will likely double major (or minor) in Spanish, and wants to spend a semester abroad. He is strongly considering the following schools:
Rhodes (likely a top choice; EA decision will be released 1/15)
Calvin University (accepted)
Hope College (accepted)
Hendrix College (accepted)
College of Wooster (accepted)
Trinity University (deferred EA)
Can anyone comment on these particular schools for computer science? While Wooster would be a top choice (campus feel, location, merit award, independent study) my concern is that the computer science program is not as strong as the others.
I would look at the schedule of classes for the last few years. Which CS classes have actually been offered (rather than the plethora that the course catalog/bulletin likely includes)? How do those appeal to your son? If your son has particular interests within CS, are there faculty who have that as an area of their own research/focus? Additionally, look at any reports about where their CS graduates are landing (and with what titles). Those can all be indications as to the strength of their various departments, particularly within your son’s particular interests. Lastly, he may want to schedule a meeting with a CS faculty member at each of the schools. Most faculty want the best for students (even if they’re not yet their students) and if the faculty member thinks that the school may not be a good fit, they may also make mention of that.
Congrats on the acceptances so far and best of luck to your son as he makes his decision! It would be great if you’d pop back in to let us know what he finds out.
For CS, I wouldn’t worry about ABET. In addition to looking at the classes actually offered in the last few years, I would also look at the number of faculty. How many of them are permanent vs adjunct or visiting? Attracting and keeping faculty in CS has been a problem at some of the smaller schools.
I had never heard much about Hope until visiting it on a college tour trip between chicago schools and U of Mich. We put Hope on the list to check to along with several other liberal arts schools in Michigan and surrounding states. We heard a bit about their undergraduate research as it was ranked in US News which seemed odd for a liberal arts school, but they have a very strong track record of external grant funding and a huge cadre of summer and school year undergraduate research. Computer Science is one of many successful science and engineering programs at the school. The students at the school include a number of faculty kids from U Mich. I heard it described as the “Cal Tech of Christian Colleges” with Baylor being the MIT equivalent. I think that may a bit overstated, but the summer research in the sciences is legit with very strong grad placement in Graduate and Professional schools and a lot of undergraduate research productivity. I questioned the US News ranking of Hope undergrad research (#27 in ties with Columbia and Rice), but they are very good and would definitely rank it very highly for those with interests in the STEM fields. Job placement is quite good from what students from there have mentioned with lots of opportunities for graduates in Chicago and Detroit as well as Livonia which is a regional software hub.
All 5 are solid academically but very different overall. When it comes to CS, the field is extremely employable and part of it is also being able to pursue your own interests independently (a lot of it will not come from class per se).
Hope and Calvin are of course Christian/evangelical colleges with mandatory Protestant theology and western civ classes.
Hendrix is known for quirky or nerdy kids, its student support and its innovative curriculum. Rhodes attracts lots of premeds and with Wooster is the best known nationally, with a Western Civ/religion requirement freshman year which can be as religious or not depending on the student.
Wooster has the strongest reputation academically alongside Rhodes, in part for the Independent study senior year, and attracts a lot of serious/focused/nerdy kids.
I agree ABET accreditation is meaningless for CS (the most famous CS programs aren’t ABET accredited…)
Your son could email the faculty: what language is taught in the 1st year courses? Is there a separate class for 1st year students who have never taken any CS course nor programmed in their lives, and for students who have talen CS in HS, know languages, have experience with hackathons or competitions? What courses are seniors taking this school year and what was scheduled last year? How many students are enrolled in the 1st year courses, per class and total? How many in 2nd year courses, per class and total? (This, to evaluate class size but also retention. Because 1st year CS classes not entrance controlled or selective at those colleges AFAIK, most students are just taking it for gen ed or exploration, but hope for about 25-30% students and 1 2nd level section for 3 or 4 1st level.)
What are the professors’ research specialties? Is there a scheme to involve students in professors’ research after the 1st year?
Can CS students study abroad and are there programs more specifically geared toward them? Is there a “term away from campus” in a city, at a lab, on a partner college campus (or can students organize a term away from campus)?
What internships do current sophomores and juniors have lined up for the summer?
What do the 1st 2 years look like at each college if you create a 4 semester schedule integrating core courses, pre-reqs for upper level classes in his majors, and general education? And which obes are most appealing to your son?
Computer science tends to be a divergent field, in which a solid foundation as an undergraduate suffices for a range of post-graduation goals. As particular suggestions for college selection, look for schools with five or more full-time CS faculty and ignore ABET accreditation.
@KWCorgi, this maybe helpful. These are from 2020 and 2021 but can give you an idea about outcome of Rhodes
I am not sure that Rhodes is best place for CS. I have DD at Rhodes as premed. I agree that majority of student at Rhodes are premed, prelaw, business, political science etc. Rhodes has a huge list of Foundation requirements. It is hard for me to see how these foundations will benefit CS people…From what I see among listed CS classes at Rhodes ( I am no CS person but have many CS family members) they are kind of basic and far cry from top CS schools like GaTech or UMD. I understand that students with CS major can be employed everywhere, but I would go with a school that has a bigger CS department.
I think size of faculty may heavily depend on number of students, with Hope triple the size of Hendrix, Wooster and Rhodes in the middle (close to twice the size of Hendrix). It’s also irrelevant to compare with a tech school 20 times their size.
Number of faculty in relation to number of freshman sections and number of majors may make more sense?
A typical number of majors may range from under 10 to up to 35-40.
A typical student semester would be 4 courses but even senior year only 2 or 3 would be in the major.
Most faculty would teach 3 courses each.
Study abroad and study away opportunities (ideally 1 of each in the context of CS/math) would be important.
Yes, I agree. I considered these schools as if they are all about the same size, which they are not. My suggestion to seek a minimum of five CS faculty was intended for smaller liberal arts colleges, those of, say, about 2,000 students or fewer.
@KWCorgi Click on the circle on the right at the top of your screen (in your case letter K). You should have an envelope showing up. That is a message. Click on it…
I tried twice to message you.
Abet doesn’t much matter for CS for employment, from all I have heard and seen directly. Though it does indicate something about the program (they want reassurance / credentials etc and have met that). It matters hugely if you need a professional engineer license which not usually what CS majors are intending. Asking where graduates go to work is much more important and ensuring the CS department has a number of professors and classes, etc.
I recently asked 2 software engineering hiring manager (trained as software engineers) at tech companies who hire dozens of people a year. One had never heard of Abet (literally didn’t know what it was) other cared what applicant could do, not if their program was Abet. I also have worked at tech companies and this was not an issue at all.
