<p>That’s what happened. Look it up. But, they picked the wrong case.</p>
<p>So @marie1234 , of [all</a> the unarmed black men shot by police](<a href=“http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-michael-brown-ferguson-black-men]all”>Exactly How Often Do Police Shoot Unarmed Black Men? – Mother Jones), what’s your theory as to why activists and lawyers and PR firms chose this particular case as their cause celebre?</p>
<p>There are much better cases if you want to make the point so I agree, it’s a good question. But, they did.</p>
<p>Well, you know that they didn’t choose this case because Brown’s grotesquely injured body was left for hours in the August sun for no apparent reason. So I figured you have a theory about why they did choose it.</p>
<p>It is possible that the DA should never have pursued a case against Brown at all, as DAs routinely do when they feel there isn’t enough evidence to win a conviction. Once he did, though, he should have gone through an honest grand jury proceeding, and it doesn’t sound like that was remotely the case. This was a prosecutor trying to ward off criticism by foisting responsibility onto a grand jury, and that’s not acceptable.</p>
<p>As with so many issues in society, one of the things that bothers me here is a lack of nuance. First of all, as others have said, I’m not sure that Michael Brown should be the poster child for victims police brutality, EVEN IF Darren Wilson overreacted, as he well may have. Brown had some sort of altercation with Wilson. The fact that he had stolen from a convenience store isn’t justification for Wilson’s reaction, but it is relevant to assessing Brown’s potential state of mind at that moment. Witness testimony, which initially seemed to look bad for Wilson, was largely refuted by forensics. So while we don’t know exactly what happened, we do know that it doesn’t seem to be the cold-blooded execution of an innocent teenager.The fact that we have a problem with police brutality, especially toward men of color, in this country doesn’t mean we get to throw out the evidence in this particular case.</p>
<p>Even looking at the larger problem, however, it seems to me we should be able to acknowledge the need for police reform (and reform of other aspects of the criminal justice system, too) without throwing out hyperbolic rhetoric about America “not caring” about the lives of black men, or suggesting that nothing has changed since the Civil Rights Movement. </p>
<p>Let’s lobby for police departments to use cameras. Let’s lobby for a pushback against the more aggressive police style that has emerged in the past couple of decades. Let’s mandate training on de-escalation, community relations AND implicit bias. I’ll join that rally. I’ll vote for that measure, or write my congressman. But don’t expect me to join a group engaging in rhetoric without regard to fact - that the revelation of the forensics and the robbery video didn’t cause the protesters to lose momentum is telling. </p>
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<p>To a lot of Black families and their supporters, that isn’t hyperbolic rhetoric, but lived fearful reality based on experiences of themselves or those they knew in their communities. </p>
<p>An article by a civil rights attorney who is conflicted about what to tell her own 10 year old son about this case:</p>
<p><a href=“http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/opinion/ferguson-telling-my-son-michelle-alexander.html?_r=0&referrer”>http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/opinion/ferguson-telling-my-son-michelle-alexander.html?_r=0&referrer</a></p>
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<p>Grand jurors are not tasked with looking at the evidence. They’re tasked with listening to the prosecutor’s case against a potential defendant, and seeing if there is a case worth bringing for a jury to decide facts and credibility. Grand jurors are NOT tryers of fact. <<<</p>
<p>The above appears to be a very generic description of grand juries. It is utterly misleading to state that grand jurors are not or never tasked to look at the evidence. </p>
<p>There is plenty of information that describes the process in a less misleading manner. And plenty of sources that describe this precise process in Ferguson accurately. </p>
<p>Also, just found this article posted by a HS classmate who follows the case more closely:</p>
<p><a href=“Ferguson's Darren Wilson is first 6'4, 210lb child in history says Piers Morgan | Daily Mail Online”>Ferguson's Darren Wilson is first 6'4, 210lb child in history says Piers Morgan | Daily Mail Online;
<p>Seems like Wilson’s description of himself being a child holding Hulk Hogan is a bit of an exaggeration considering he’s nearly the same height, there’s an 80 pound difference between the two, and he’s a trained LEO. </p>
<p>I have a good idea of what 6’4" and 210 pounds is like considering one of my best HS buddies happens to be the same height, is around 30 pounds heavier, and incidentally happens to be White like Wilson. </p>
<p>Now if I was the LEO in question at a smidgen under 6’ and weighing somewhere in the 140-150 ish range, I’d probably have much more of a justification for making such a rhetorical claim. </p>
<p>Ironic considering I had no difficulties in accidentally knocking a cousin who was 6’1" and nearly 75 pounds heavier than me onto the ground accidentally when we collided at full speed in the midst of a spirited soccer game back in college while visiting him in Boston on a weekend. I didn’t even feel it until I found him on the ground while I was still standing upright. Weird considering he’s much more well-built and athletic than I am. </p>
<p>In short, the rhetoric Wilson used plays on old racial stereotypes as discussed here: </p>
<p><a href=“The terrifying racial stereotypes laced through Darren Wilson's testimony - Vox”>The terrifying racial stereotypes laced through Darren Wilson's testimony - Vox;
<p>Also, I find it interesting such a discussion is being made in the Daily Mail as that British publication tends to be very pro-LEO leaning from past experiences reading it. It is often identified as one of the more conservative leaning publications in Britain. </p>
<p>“The prosecutor is supposed to represent the victim. He represented the accused instead. There was no one representing the victim. By not fulfilling his duties as a prosecutor, which is to present the case against Wilson, he created the situation where only Wilson was represented.”</p>
<p>^^^^^^^THIS! </p>
<p>And people wonder why those in Ferguson acted the way they did. </p>
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<p>This is the parent cafe. Parents lost their 18 year old son, about the most tragic experience most parents can imagine. It’s just heartbreaking.</p>
<p>First of all, I believe that the situation in Ferguson, to have blown up the way it did points to some grave issues there that should be addressed, quickly and aggressively. That it happened with MB as the poster child is unfortunate, as I believe that what the grand jury ruled was just and that Officer Wilson was justified in what he did. I am not taking any characterization, report, stories, past crimes, videos, anything about MB into account when coming to this opinon either. However, when one throws in all of those factors, and STILL the reaction is as it was by the town, the nation, there is something serious asunder. </p>
<p>The reason, I believe that the grand jury came to the right conclusion is that there was very clear evidence, indisputable, that MB had attacked the police officer before the final shooting occurred. You don’t get into a physical altercation with a police officer like that and expect NOT to be considered a danger. The other thing is that in court, the onus would be on the state to prove that the officer was in the wrong beyond reasonable doubt, and there is plenty of doubt in this case. IMO the DA would under most circumstances just passed on prosecuting the case, but because of the public uproar and MSM picking up on this story, the case was sent to grand jury where the verdict could be spread among more citizens rather than just on the DA’s head. </p>
<p>With different eye witness accounts as to what MB was doing when shot to death, no one story can be counted upon, just that the accounts cannot be relied upon. He was facing the officer, he was large man so that even with the police officer being of similar size, a physical confrontation could be dangerous, MB had already had a physical confrontation moments ago with the officer showing he was wiiling to so engage. He had already shown that he was not going to be obeying officer commands. So yes, I believe that there is an excellent chance that MB was coming at the officer and I would have done the same as Officer Wilson, had I been in that situation. </p>
<p>That the town of Ferguson, which is not where MB lived most of the time is the indication that I got. That those in Ferguson did not really know him. He did not graduate from high school due to being short on credits so had to go to summer school. Was living with grandmom, so not sure what his hometown was. How well he was known in Ferguson, I don’t know. It seems to me that what happened to him was a catalyst for something long coming. That he came from a high school that is one of the worst and most dangerous in the state of MO, where such events are not so unusual to the students, is telling to me. He was from a rough area, and possibly did not know how things came down in Ferguson. </p>
<p>So, despite the fact that Officer Wilso has been cleared of charges, that I believe the verdict was the right one, that MB was likely a thug, the reaction of the town is what I think needs to be addressed rather than the specific event. He was the “mouse that tipped the raft”, IMO, but that raft was overweight before that happened.</p>
<p>“With different eye witness accounts as to what MB was doing when shot to death, no one story can be counted upon, just that the accounts cannot be relied upon.”</p>
<p>Yes, no one story can be counted on, nor can anyone’s account be relied upon, including the Officer’s. A grand jury only needs probable cause to indict. </p>
<p>The prosecutor acted as a defense attorney in this case when he was supposed to be representing the people. He failed in his duty. </p>
<p>If Wilson had come across Brown at the scene of the c store robbery, would it have been ok for him to have pulled out his gun? Or are cops supposed to be just sitting ducks and patsies while criminals do their thing, after all, it was only a box of cigars and a hard shove? </p>
<p>“With different eye witness accounts as to what MB was doing when shot to death, no one story can be counted upon, just that the accounts cannot be relied upon.”</p>
<p>Indeed, that’s why the autopsy results are so compelling. </p>
<p>'Indeed, that’s why the autopsy results are so compelling"</p>
<p>Was the autopsy and the forensic expert who testified subjected to cross examination? </p>
<p>“If Wilson had come across Brown at the scene of the c store robbery, would it have been ok for him to have pulled out his gun? Or are cops supposed to be just sitting ducks and patsies while criminals do their thing, after all, it was only a box of cigars and a hard shove?”</p>
<p>I don’t think it would be wrong for him to pull out his gun in that situation but shooting to kill him in that situation would have been, imo. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but stealing cigarillo’s, even during the commission of a crime such as that, does not rise to the level where an officer should be shooting anyone. </p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t believe the officer’s account of what went down. </p>
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<p>A “good shoot” in this case would only have needed to disable the alleged attacker, not kill him.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the prosecutor would call any shooting of a black person by a cop a “good shoot,” considering that he had sided with the police in every case during 20-plus years in his role.</p>
<p><a href=“Ferguson Prosecutor Robert P. McCulloch's Long History of Siding With the Police”>http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-prosecutor-robert-p-mccullochs-long-history-siding-police-267357</a></p>
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<p>Why do you always refer to your high school as your “Science public magnet” when using those experiences to bolster an argument? Why don’t you just say “a pharmacology course in high school”? Is the fact that you went to a public magnet supposed to give more credence to anything you have to say? </p>
<p>I’m on the fence about the whole thing, but I haven’t seen all the evidence either. There is no way this thing is over, not by a long shot. I won’t be surprised in the least to see a federal case, and of course there will be a civil suit. </p>
<p>As an aside, can police in the US generally shoot you if you run away and ignore orders to stop? Assuming your alleged infraction if any was minor, and you were clearly unarmed and not running away to commit a violent crime.</p>
<p>I hope not</p>
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<p>Depends on the jurisdiction and circumstances. </p>
<p>One reason why this practice is discouraged other than there no longer being an imminent threat to the officer at hand is the possible danger of stray bullets and damages/injuries/death which could occur from shooting a fleeing suspect…especially in a built-up suburban/urban area like Ferguson, MO.</p>
<p>For instance, NYC when the NYPD shot a suspect in Midtown Manhattan, they also ended up injuring a few bystanders with stray bullets in the process: <a href=“Times Square shooting: NYPD officers shoot two innocent bystanders near Times Square - CBS News”>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-square-shooting-nypd-officers-shoot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/</a></p>
<p>It’s the same reason why cops are strongly discouraged in some circumstances from going on high-speed chases against fleeing criminal suspects even though they are largely immunized in practice if they cause injury/death to bystanders in the course of pursuing a fleeing suspect. </p>
<p>The same seems to apply when bystanders are injured in police shootings considering the authorities ended up indicting the suspect for being responsible for the injuries the bystanders received due to the stray bullets even though one of the bystanders’ attorneys argued the absurdity of doing so:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html”>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html</a></p>