final straw? -- serving booze to kids

Smart girl. My kids used to do that too.

Perhaps the better analogy would be: it’s not illegal to make book with an 18 year old. Would you be okay with one of your kid’s friend’s parents making book with your kid?

That is an old adage/wives tale that is not true.

In a typical recipe you can have anywhere from 1/34 to 1/2 of the alcohol remain. Google it and you will see thousands of articles and references. I have linked just one which shows a list compiled by the US Dept. of Agriculture.

http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/blalcohol12.htm

Make book?

I know it is a small sample size, but DW and I have been amazed at how strict the kids around here are about drinking and driving. My kids are incredibly open with us about everything (both good and bad) and tell plenty of stories about people they know or see who do drugs, or hook up etc, but I have only ever heard of one kid who drank and then drove. DS recently had a friend who walked home instead of driving while drunk and it took him 4 hours in the bitter cold. He got home at 5 am.

Gamble with in a way that they’re guaranteed profit. Specifically, to the individual, gamble with on unfavorable terms to your kid.

I would expect my 18 year old to say no. My kids are not risk takers when it comes to their money. D1 is so tight with her money, I don’t think she would ever be interested. The only gambling she is interested in is the stock market, even that is with mutual fund.

I didn’t mean specifically you/your kids.

I know, but by the time your kid is 18 wouldn’t you expect your kid to make the right decision, or is it always more convenient to blame it on other people?

I don’t want to get too sidetracked here but I think this argument is somewhat germane to the discussion. You are absolutely correct, but as long as we allow people with prefrontal cortexes that are not fully developed to vote, or make any other number of major adult decisions, I feel they should be allowed to drink. Add in the fact that they can die serving our country, but can’t legally drink, and I think it is just plain stupid and unfair.

Also, I make a big distinction over the ages of the kids involved. Like the OP, I was indignant when a mom offered booze to our 17 year old son after the prom. And this was after DW called up to ask about supervision at the overnight party and was told that the mom was a recovering alcoholic and would under no circumstances be allowing booze. The next day DS told us that the mom was partying with the kids and providing the drinks. I was livid.

If someone does the same thing now to my 20 year old DD I would have absolutely no problem with it. She may not be legal yet but she is an adult and can make her own decisions and live with the consequences.

It seems to me it would be the equivalent with alcohol. It’s not like the other parents are forcing booze down your kid’s throat, your kid could decide for themselves not to partake.

Committing a felony would be a reason to stop seeing a friend. My aunt gave me and my brother alcohol from age 12 onward, and to this day, I feel that it was WAY out of line but we never told our parents (and she never told them) until we were out of college.

I have heard of many stories like this, where people are friends who have different outlooks on life, and then suddenly, there is a tipping point., If providing HS students with alcohol is not a tipping point, I don’t know what is.

However, it is more important to think about whether you should bring up why you are letting the friendship go, or if you should live and let live, and not mention it. In some cases, I have not told friends why our friendship waned, because I felt the issue was too integral to how they lived their life, perhaps religious or personal or moral.

As for an 18 year old vs. a 20 year old, assuming that the 20 year old had been in college for two years or had been working two years, not just living at home as a sponge, I agree there is a difference. I made a life-long decision at age 19 and have not regretted it. I feel that luck was a huge part of it, but also at 21 I reinforced that decision with much more information available.

You don’t want to put 18 year olds who have not lived on their own and have not had to make life-changing decisions in a life or death situation. And having unfettered access to alcohol as a teen can be a life or death situation. And I would not want someone as a friend who might do that. Maybe the friend isn’t too bright or hasn’t thought it through, or had a different upbringing (consider most of Europe’s views on children drinking alcohol). But you need to stay true to your morals, and make sure your children are safe for as long as they are under your control.

I’m sure we could all come up with dozens of things that most would consider worse. Making book on, providing weed or other drugs, proselytizing.

It is really a personal choice. I don’t think anyone can say which tipping point is justified, and there is no reason one should need someone else’s approval whether it is justified or not.

Oh good grief, someone’s not going to read and drive and get in a wreck and perhaps kill someone else because they read pornography.

well, maybe if they are reading it while driving :wink: ^^

Another reason to end the friendship, as these are some dire outcomes.

http://patch.com/new-jersey/southbrunswick/south-brunswick-mother-charged-child-endangerment

After I write this I will sit back and wait for the explosion:

At fourteen I was invited to my best friend’s home for a very adult party. (not a teen party). The father was a producer (not vegetable producer) and had hired excellent party planners. The bartender was “famous” and he served me…a lot. I will just say that it was a damn good thing that I was sleeping over that night.

My parents may have known…or not.

My kids knew this story. I received one call from one of our kids to pick them up immediately. We were a half hour away…and went over the hill like a fireball. Ten minutes later we received a call from our oldest saying that they were home and safe.

Our mantra was that we will pick you up anytime or anyplace in the world and no questions asked. My eldest filled us in. Our caller was walking on foot away from the party. We never had a police officer at our home.

I’m not sure why you are expecting an explosion. You don’t seem to be saying that what your best friend’s parents did when you were 14 was perfectly fine. Are you?

No, of course it wasn’t fine. I am saying is that most of us weren’t perfect. Some far worse than others. As parents we have (please) perspective and really want our kids to be “better” than we were, to have more chances more opportunities than we had.

And unless this group were social and personal virgins why would we choose to live as if we were? Or break off friendships without a discussion?