Hi all - I am dealing with a complicated situation (one might call it a cluster) where I am trying to do the following:
Get someone, who IS of sound mind, to grant me and my sister full power of financial attorney so we can handle all financial matters ... This person is willing to do so, but not sure what forms to use / do - is it as simple as just filling out a form and signing in front of a notary public? All 3 of us are in Illinois.
Get a codicil to my grandmother's will (this is in Pennsylvania), such that, rather than everything she has going to her daughter (my mother), everything she has will pass to my sister (her granddaughter). Again, this person is willing to do so, and we are traveling to PA this week and will get papers signed -- I see codicils on line, is there a particular form we should use?
Everyone’s of free will in these situations - not trying to pull any fast ones on anybody, but don’t want to pay a lawyer if these are forms we can find online and have notarized.
When our daughter went into the Peace Corps, we needed Power of Attorney to handle all of her affairs while she was gone. Our neighbor is a notary. He advised us to print out a POA form, and we all signed it in his presence. I will say…get a bunch of original copies of this. There are many places that want originals only. I had to have a notary certify copies I made because I didn’t think to have my kid sign a bunch of them with us.
The POA we got was used by the banks with no issue at all. Ditto her credit card company (we had to deal with a fraud claim on DD’s behalf). I was able to access the kid’s accounts the whole time she was gone.
But really, I would check first. Maybe I just hit it lucky!
I suggest getting an attorney. I got the paperwork you wanted for two mothers and learned a good deal about the rules in the states and any potential issues for $350, and it was worth every cent and more.
I’d suggest you do have an attorney and execute a DURABLE power of attorney (POA) form AND also get firms from each of her financial institutions for durable POAs and have those also executed.
Have read and heard of banks and others who have refused to recognize POAs unless their own form was used. My relative who is counsel for a bank confirmed that banks and others DO reject POA forms that aren’t theirs.
I wouldn’t do this without an attorney. You don’t want to risk having it all overturned later on. It shouldn’t cost too much if you make it clear that you want to just be sure you are doing it all correctly.
– Get someone, who IS of sound mind, to grant me and my sister full power of financial attorney so we can handle all financial matters … This person is willing to do so, but not sure what forms to use / do - is it as simple as just filling out a form and signing in front of a notary public? All 3 of us are in Illinois.
This is a significant undertaking that recipient financial institutions will not take lightly. So, you need to make sure that the form meets all IL requirements for POA – which can only be done with the an IL attorney. IL law will also govern how the POA must be executed, but at the very least will require notarization. Sometimes, the financial institution will also require a “signature guarantee” or “medallion guarantee.”
HImom is correct that most financial institutions will require their own form of POA so it’s best that you start contacting them (or looking online for their preferred form). They are at risk of liability if they rely on a POA and allow someone to transact business in someone’s else’s name, so they will be leery.
If this is an “emergency” – start small to get things in order at the bank and financial institutions. If there are more complex financial matters, you should consider more extensive estate planning.
Get a codicil to my grandmother's will (this is in Pennsylvania), such that, rather than everything she has going to her daughter (my mother), everything she has will pass to my sister (her granddaughter). Again, this person is willing to do so, and we are traveling to PA this week and will get papers signed -- I see codicils on line, is there a particular form we should use?
General guidelines:
You’ll definitely want to make sure that the form of will satisfies PA law. So, make sure to check if the PA bar association has “simple” wills that you can fill in the blanks and use. You must make sure that all PA legal requirements for the execution of a will/codicil are met or the codicil will fail. Make sure that the witnesses to the signing of the will and the notary public are all properly qualified.
Make sure that the previous/existing will has no other provision that needs “modification” by the codicil. If your mother wants what would have gone to her now to go to your sister, your mother CAN disclaim after the fact but that is less certain than getting things cleaned up now.
Also, if there are financial accounts in your GM’s name, you should consider having her establish POD/TOD arrangements in favor of your sister now. Then these accounts can pass outside of your GM’s will.
And I second this – Depending on the sums involved in the estates, it may not be worth saving a few hundred dollars with DIY, especially with the risk of faulty documentation and more especially if there are very elderly people involved.
I was financial POA for a friend, and the myriad complexities of assuming this for someone are worth the lawyers fee. One thing, which you’d probably not do on your own, is have a clause for payment, should the duties end up taking a significant amount of time. I never did do that, but in retrospect should have, as supervising a medicaid spend down took a certain amount of time and worry. Another, is having yet another person on the form to assume duties, should the primary POA be unable to.
One way to circumvent some of the need for using the form, is to add the prospective POA to pertinent bank accounts as a co signer, which simplifies matters at difficult times. Though I realize this is not good advice for everyone.
@Himom and @AttorneyMother are absolutely right - most banks and securities firms routinely refuse to accept attorney prepared POAs, they only will accept “their forms”! The risk of someone presenting a forged POA and raiding the account is too real so these institutions minimize their risk. As long as the person isn’t hospitalized, take them on a “field trip” to each bank and/or broker to execute their forms.
In Illinois, the legislature has passed the “Statutory Short Form Power of Attorney for Property Law” which provides basically a do it yourself form called the Illinois Statutory Short Form Power of Attorney For Property. If you go to an attorney, this is the basic form use - they are not starting from scratch. If you are especially brave, these forms are available on the internet or at office supply stores - they just need to be signed, witnessed and notarized. Of course, the terms outlined in the Statutory Form may or may not be proper for you - this is where value is added by the attorney who can modify the form as needed to accomplish your goals. The attorney prepared POA should be obtained so that the agent can deal with automobiles, leases and any other piece of property not at a bank or brokerage.
Yes, I had POAs for MIL and my mother, but had to fill out the ones for specific accounts as well. But having that official one, made it easier to get the process streamlined. They took it, but wanted their own paperwork as well.
Update - am traveling to PA this weekend, have contacted a lawyer who spoke with my grandmother and verified this was of her free will; papers being prepared and he will meet us Sunday to sign, notarize, etc. The fee is a lot more reasonable than I thought - $140.
Thanks for the IL-specific POA advice right above.
One more Q. Does having POA over soneone else’s $ have tax implications for me? And does it have legal implications if that person were to get sued? As you can probably guess, this is someone who has mismanaged money and doesn’t have much as a consequence, but I don’t want to have any potential creditors or suers then have “access” to me - suing her is a fools errand, but suing me isn’t insofar as I have assets.
Yeah, a competent/specialist attorney is best one to help with legal questions, prepare specific/bullet-proof POAs, do estate planning. Getting a notary public to acknowledge signatures on a homemade document is inviting trouble. Getting into financial matters like putting your name on a joint bank account can cause problems too. Too, when selecting an attorney to help with this kind of stuff, get an attorney who isn’t a blood relative to avoid having other family members start up about one side of family working in cahoots or questioning granny’s mental competency…don’t use granny’s attorney grandson to do legal work.
Everyone is mentally sound, just crazy :-). There’s no in-fighting involved, thankfully. Just a really bad financial situation that has all kinds of implications and has left a mess my sister and I are cleaning up. I like simple and this ain’t it!
Not to make your life more complicated but you might also look into a living will and medical power of attorney (might be same thing) drawn up if necessary.
Also since you are modifying the will, I would review the entire will with your grandmother to see if it still reflects her intentions and that the right persons are name as executors. Sometimes unforeseen things happen after a will is written. Now seems like a good time to review it.