<p>Good luck to you. Doesn’t the light turn green to the other direction only after it turns red on you? They often have to wait a few seconds for their green after you get your red, I thought.</p>
<p>If I hire the lawyer, I definitely don’t have to go to court. I sign a paper authorizing him to represent me. I think that this is standard with lawyers who do this (from their internet sites). </p>
<p>I am considering not hiring the lawyer and going to court myself, as momof3sons suggests. The court is not in my town, but in a city (New Rochelle) a few miles away. So it might be a bigger court.</p>
<p>Iglooo, yes, I’m sure the light was working properly. But, legally, the policeman will be unable to prove that this was the case. He did not see the red light himself, and even saying that he saw a sliver of it from the side wouldn’t work. This is certainly not fair or right, but red light tickets are dismissed on this basis.</p>
<p>For all those who believe that the only right thing to do is to admit guilt and pay the ticket, this was my initial reaction, too. But after having looked into this, I’ve learned that almost no one does this. Terrible drivers get tickets dismissed or reduced all the time. If I accept the 3 points, I will be getting the consequences of doing something much worse than I actually did. I’m sure the insurance companies factor in the probability of convictions when deciding their rates.</p>
<p>Whatever you do, please take the time to improve on your driving skills and be more alert. You were lucky this time but may not be so lucky next time. Had there been a pedestrian or cyclist instead of a vehicle, you may not have noticed soon enough.</p>
<p>In my state, speeding tickets stay on your record for 6 years. The insurance surcharges can easily add up to over $1000, and the fine itself is usually $150 or more for a moving violation. It’s way too much money to just plead guilty.</p>
<p>YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK!!! You have no choice. You must get a lawyer and let them handle the issue. A lawyer is likely to cost you about $400-600 which is less than the fines you will receive - not to mention points and a possible insurance rate increase. Contact a lawyer immediately. You can get a free consultation and they will tell you the same thing.</p>
<p>In addition to the local court fines, you will also receive fines in the mail from NY State.</p>
<p>I did consult a lawyer yesterday, edad, and he told me that I didn’t really need him. But if I hire him (flat fee of $475), the whole thing will almost certainly go away. I don’t have to go to court or even to his office, so I save a lot of time, too (very important these days, as I am overloaded). </p>
<p>I would get fines from NY state, as well?</p>
<p>It is not lying to plead not guilty. In my state you are required to plead not guilty in order to talk to the prosecutor for a plea bargin to a lesser charge. The court wants you to do this. It is faster for them and they get more money out of it. This has nothing to do with integrity, it is how the bueaurocratic system works. For a first time offender it is usually very simple…plead not guilty, get a court date, ask to talk to the prosecutor before the hearing, they will offer you a deal, you write your check and done.</p>
<p>Pay the fine (you were guilty) which will be several hundred dollars for running a red light. A courtesy notice will get mailed to you in a couple of weeks with the amount of the fine and an option to go to traffic school if you qualify (and you do). You will add the amount of traffic school to the fine amount.</p>
<p>This will cost you a grand total of around $400 (plus or minus $100- a lot I know- it is one of the more expensive infractions) plus a day in school or a few hours in front of your computer but, more importantly, your insurance company still thinks you are a spotless driver and your rates will reflect this! </p>
<p>I think the judge will find you guilty and you’re going to end up going to traffic school anyway, but fight it if you must.</p>
<p>“It sounds like you made a mistake, caught it just in time, and are not guilty of a flagrant violation. Maybe the policeman felt obligated to give you the ticket …”</p>
<p>Sounds right to me. There have been many threads on the ethics (and practicalities!) of fighting a ticket. Experience has taught me that the judicial system dispenses justice most fairly when the offender presents his/her case. [Full Disclosure: I was once ticketed for running a stop sign … I had stopped fully, but my front bumper was over the painted line. Obviously I’m biased toward airing the FULL story, rather than simply pleading guilty and “letting the cards fall as they may.”]</p>
<p>So, as several prior posters have suggested, plead not guilty and get your court date. If the court clerk is any good at all, your driving history will be given to the appropriate prosecuting authority. That (good) history will help immensely when the Prosecutor is deciding how to handle your case. Good luck!</p>
<p>You do not need a lawyer to handle this in NY. I agree with momof3sons. As a first time offender you are very likely to end up with a lesser conviction with fewer points just by showing up. I would not argue whether or not the officer could see the traffic light.</p>
<p>Totally agree with jrpar that you can just show up yourself if you’re willing to devote the time to this. Explain what happened, you’ve never been stopped before for anything, that you momentarily lost concentration in the middle of a conversation with your teenager ;), and don’t make the argument that the officer couldn’t see the light turn red from his vantage point. It’s nice that you found a trustworthy lawyer who said that you didn’t need him-I think the traffic lawyers really are for people with multiple serious driving infractions who need this intervention. Fines in the mail from NY State? Only if you have multiple violations within a specified period of time. You’re not planning on doing that, right? ;)</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you think your time is worth $475, hire the lawyer. Is he going to guarantee in writing that your case will be dismissed and that you won’t be assessed a fine? I doubt it.</p>
<p>About 1 1/2 yrs ago, my son was driving out of town. A dually truck pulling a cattle trailer sideswiped him. Actually drove up & over son’s mustang driver door, ripping it open and shoving his car inches from a river bridge guard rail. All while going 60. The truck stopped, yelled at son & said NOT to call the police. They were on their way to a cattle sale & were busy, so if his parents wanted to call, ok, but they’d need to wait a few hours until they weren’t busy. THEN, the driver & passenger switched spots & off they went. Leaving 3 teenage kids on the side of the road with a car that the door was ripped open & could not shut. 1) Should get a ticket for being unethical - leaving kids and 2) switched drivers - WHY?</p>
<p>ALL the brake marks are on my S’ side of the road, indicating he was on his own side. Highway patrol even pointed that out. However, he had intentions to pass the car in front of him & drifted over. He admitted to that. Not sure he ever got across the line though and the 2 other boys in the car don’t think he was over yet when they hit. But he did intend to pass.</p>
<p>Son knew (we’d preached to him) he HAD to get name & insurance info. and you HAD to have a police report. The truck didn’t have their insurance cards (hmmm) but finally gave their name & number. When the truck left, son immediately called the highway patrol. Good boy.</p>
<p>Anyway, the patrolman finally caught up with truck people and they claimed he was driving like a wild man and cussed them out, just out of control, etc. Patrolman automatically assumed they were rude teenagers and my son got a ticket for failure to drive on right half of roadway, resulting in an accident. Other guy got nothing.</p>
<p>Anyway, my first instict was pay the ticket. He made the error. Consequences for your actions. What he really learned was, that if he’d kept his mouth shut like the guys in the truck wanted to, he wouldn’t have gotten in trouble. NO. wrong message.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if I was the maddest that they left kids on the side of the road , or that they said not to bother them at the cattle sale, said not to call the cops, or no need for insurance. Damage to son’s car was over $6000. Then they get off scott free. </p>
<p>We also talked to another highway patrol that is a family friend. He asked the ticketing officer about it & that’s how we know what the truck people said. Our ‘friend’ officer told the other one that he doesn’t believe that for a minute, because he has known our son for many many years and he would not behave that way. He said to fight it under the circumstances.</p>
<p>We did. I hired a lawyer. We were in another town - county where it happened. The officer did not come. Lots of people in court that day for traffic - adults & a teenage girl and there were no officers of any kind. Our officer wasn’t normally in that area, he just happened to be the closest when the call came in. </p>
<p>Our lawyer fee was $100.</p>
<p>We came to court. The lawyer talked to the judge before it all started. When it was our turn, he reviewed what happend (the judge). Since he did the ‘right’ thing & called the police from the scene and was responsible with no other violations ever and the other guys left, they threw the ticket itself out. But, since it did involve an accident, they couldn’t just do nothing. They put him on 6 months probabtion (with no actual probation rules except no more tickets) and then it simply disappeared. No record, no points.</p>
<p>Our insurance paid to fix son’s car AND the truck. Funny, I actually know where the people live - just across the state line and see it frequently. They never had it fixed, just pocketed the insurance money.</p>
<p>No fine, nor did our insurance go up.</p>
<p>In the end, under THESE circumstances, I feel like we did the right thing.</p>
<p>OK, here are my 3 stories. Two (in different towns in northern NJ) had a reasonably positive outcome; one (in Manhattan) was a nightmare for reasons you’re rather unlikely to encounter.</p>
<p>I’ve had three moving violation tickets in my 36 years as a licensed driver, all in the last 7 or 8 years. I must be getting old. The first one was in a rather notorious speed trap in B------, NJ – a street where the posted speed limit suddenly goes from 35 to 25 halfway down a long block that gets a lot of traffic, and police cars frequently sit down the block waiting to catch drivers who didn’t immediately slow down. I got stopped one day for going 34 in the 25 mph zone (I probably had done so), and was given a speeding ticket which, if I had decided to plead guilty by mail and pay the fine, would have cost me about $150, but would, under NJ law, have resulted in points on my license and, almost certainly, an increase in my already exorbitant insurance rates that would have dwarfed the fine. (NJ has the highest car insurance rates in the country – since moving to NYC, I pay about half what I did in NJ.)</p>
<p>Based on advice from people who’d been through the same thing, I didn’t pay the ticket by mail. Instead, I went to the town court on the appointed day, and soon realized that the whole setup was simply a revenue-generating device for the town. Prior to the hearing, like everyone else there, I was funneled to a town attorney who gave me the following choice: plead guilty to speeding (or be found guilty), pay the $150 fine, and get points, or plead guilty to careless driving, which carries no points – but, coincidentally, happens to carry a $350 fine! Like just about everyone else, I made the obvious choice, paid the $350, avoided points, and made the town of B---- $200 richer than it would otherwise have been.</p>
<p>The second time, in a different town in NJ, I was also ticketed for speeding, also for going about 30-35 in a 25 mph zone. This time, I just couldn’t afford to take the scheduled day off from work, and hired (sight unseen) one of the many local attorneys from whom I had received letters soon after the ticket (they must send out mailings to everyone who gets ticketed – presumably there’s a list of names and addresses of people scheduled to appear) to take care of it for me. I paid him a few hundred dollars, but the outcome (no points, and, if I recall correctly, no payment beyond the lawyer’s fee) was similar, and I didn’t have to go to court. I’m sure these local attorneys all know exactly what to do, and are pals with the town judges.</p>
<p>The third, and not so uneventful time was one evening in New York City in about March 2005, when I was driving home after work, down 9th Avenue towards the Lincoln Tunnel, and supposedly ran a red light going across 42nd Street. Which I knew perfectly well at the time, and am still convinced, I hadn’t: the light turned yellow just as I went past the corner into the intersection, and I didn’t want to stop suddenly because I was afraid I’d be hit by the car close behind me, so I went across and the light turned red before I got to the other side (it’s a wide intersection since 42nd goes both ways). From the vantage point of where the police officer had been sitting in his car, across the street and around the corner, there’s no possible way he could have seen when the light turned red for me.</p>
<p>In any event, I decided to go to court and fight the ticket, because I was so convinced I was in the right, and because, again, I didn’t want the points (which were worse for running a red light than for speeding). A good friend of mine who happens to be a criminal defense attorney agreed to represent me, but warned me that they didn’t make deals in traffic court in Manhattan like they do in those New Jersey towns, and that I would probably be found guilty regardless of the actual facts.</p>
<p>The main problem, however, was that although I got the ticket in March, the court appearance wasn’t until September.</p>
<p>In between, in late April 2005, I transitioned and, among other things, changed my legal name. I thought that might create some confusion, but it was actually worse than that, as I explained in the following account I posted after the hearing on a trans-related message board I’ve belonged to for many years. Keep in mind that this was only four months after I’d transitioned, and I wasn’t nearly so used to any of it as I am now, more than five years later:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I ended up not filing a complaint; I just wanted to forget about it. I think now I’d be a lot more confident in expressing outrage, and might have actually done something. Fortunately, I’m unlikely to be in that particular situation ever again, and it certainly isn’t something you’ll have to worry about!</p>
<p>However, if where you’re going is anything like traffic court in Manhattan, your actual innocence, and the fact that the police officer couldn’t have seen the light turn red for you, won’t make a difference. Finding people guilty is the judge’s job, at least in Manhattan.</p>
<p>BTW, I never did get points on my NJ license – perhaps because of the interstate aspect, perhaps because my license was, by then, in a different name (and gender) from the one connected with the ticket. Who knows, but in that respect, I did end up getting relatively lucky!</p>
<p>Donna</p>
<p>Sorry, I was wrong. You will not get a separate fine from NYS DMV. At worst you will get 3 points and a couple hundred dollar fine and probably spend several hours on the process.</p>
<p>Your insurance may not go up as much as you think.</p>
<p>I caused a car accident years ago (turned left in front of a guy). Insurance paid $100,000 liability + $28,000 for his car. My insurance barely went up - I lost the “safe driver discount” but the base insurance rate didn’t climb. (I went to safe driving school and it didn’t show up on my record but clearly they knew about it.)</p>
<p>About two years after that I got a speeding ticket. My insurance rate didn’t change at all. In fact, I don’t think they ever pulled my driving record to check.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t automatically assume that your insurance will skyrocket because of one ticket. Especially if it can get waived if you go to school.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t put too much stock into the argument that the officer didn’t see the red light, so therefore he didn’t know if you actually ran it.</p>
<p>This argument may work if a person enters the intersection just after the light turns red. Since often all 4 lights are red for a few seconds, an officer can’t know precisely when the light turned red and therefore can’t be sure if the light was red or yellow when the driver entered.</p>
<p>This case doesn’t sound like that scenario. It sounds like the officer and one other vehicle were approaching a intersection that had a green light. All of a sudden a vehicle enters the intersection from the intersecting street. There is no possibility expect the somebody didn’t see the red light and run it. The only possibility of it not being red is if it was burned out (in which case the driver is required to stop) or the light malfunction and show green, which is impossible based on the design of the stop light.</p>
<p>@Donna, it’s funny, I’ve received two speeding tickets my whole life and like you, I was traveling about 34 mph for each one! You should tell us the name of your B**** town so we can all avoid it. One of my tickets was in Bristol, VT, which I found out later is notorious. I also had VA plates at the time and was probably irresistible to them. When I get grumpy about that I remember all my occasional highway speeding, which I’ve never been caught for (and it’s never been egregious).</p>
<p>There are some cops who just want to pull everyone over and they get quite gleeful about it. D was pulled over by a state trooper the other night who gave her an official warning for “hanging to the right”. She apologized and told him that she was preparing to enter the exit lane and had her blinker on. He gave her the warning anyway and what it says is, “negligent driving vehicle in careless and imprudent manner endangering property, life and person”!!! What happened to “hanging to the right”?</p>
<p>There’s no fine, and insurance won’t be notified, but it will show up on her record to a cop if she’s pulled over again and I’m not sure how long it will be there. Anyone know how long?</p>
<p>Donna, what an awful story! But your description of the cop, and your lawyer’s contemplated comment to him, made me lau</p>
<p>In Florida you don’t even have to contact a lawyer, they contact you via snail mail. I went through this not too long ago, I hired a “ticket clinic” lawyer; it cost me around $350 (the ticket would have cost me $180). I never met this lawyer only spoke to him on the phone and he made it go away, no points, no insurance hike, no spending time to go to court. It was the right choice for me. If you have the time and desire to go to court and want to save $ then it may be worth it for you.</p>
<p>As for learning from my mistake, I now use my cruise control to make sure I do not speed.</p>
<p>We all make mistakes. Don’t be moralist, or set some sort of ridiculous standard that you “should” attain to, you wouldn’t fool yourself or anyone. I don’t think you should necessarily “fight it,” but you should explain what happened. Don’t feel ashamed, it doesn’t reflect on you as a person, and you need to genuinely believe that you can get this fine reduced/thrown out. </p>
<p>Now, if only I could follow my own advice.</p>