<p>“Maybe if you shoot someone on top of you, you then have to crawl out from under and they fall face down? But wouldn’t you then be covered in blood?”</p>
<p>But if TM ceased the altercation at the sidewalk, got up and began walking away from GZ (before being shot), that would explain the lack of blood on GZ and the ease with which he drew his pistol. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but it does fit the evidence better.</p>
<p>"When a police officer testified he asked GZ if he was armed and GZ said yes and then lifted his right arm upwards so that his coat would rise and expose the weapon on GZ’s right side. "</p>
<p>“right side” is not quite correct. I could be wrong but that is not quite what the police say.</p>
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We are amateurs. Did you notice? You don’t have to read the thread.</p>
<p>^#539 BC - That makes sense. Thanks. (But it still doesn’t explain why TM was found several steps from the sidewalk.)</p>
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Must one defend oneself from a person walking away from you?</p>
<p>Police Officer Smith’s report (he was the first officer on the scene) states:<br>
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<p>Officer Alaya’s report was that “he attempted to get a response” from TM. Then a Sgt. arrived and Alaya and the Sgt turned TM over and started breaths and chest compression. Thereafter, another Sgt. showed up and he took over the compressions. Then the Standford Fire Rescue arrived and “attempted to revive” TM.</p>
<p>In 13 minutes between the first contact and the EMS declaring TM dead, TM’s body had been turned over by two officers and had been handled by a total of three policemen and the EMS paramedic.</p>
<p>zm: “Maybe if you shoot someone on top of you, you then have to crawl out from under and they fall face down? But wouldn’t you then be covered in blood?”</p>
<p>Trayvon’s bleeding was mostly internal, so if what you said happened, Zimmerman would not be covered in blood.</p>
<p>One of Zimmerman’s big problems is the position of Trayvon’s body. Watch the walkthrough he did with police the day after the shooting. He gets to the “T”, where he said the altercation took place in his previous interviews, then notices that the body was 40’ away. He then tries to move toward it by saying that he “stumbled” in that direction.</p>
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<p>If Z was on top of M and raining down blows on him, then a jury wouldn’t consider Z to have a reasonable belief that his life was in danger.</p>
<p>If someone is on top of you striking you in the nose, would you have a reasonable belief that your life was in danger [ignoring how the situation came about of course]? Would the members of the jury?</p>
<p>
That is an excellent point. Thank you.</p>
<p>We’re still missing something BIG. Good testified that TM was atop GZ in a “ground and pound” position raining blows down on GZ. If that’s true, there’s no way GZ could draw a pistol on his hip … because TM would have been sitting on GZ’s hips/stomach, and GZ would have had to reach along the inside of TM’s thighs in order to reach the pistol. No man is going to allow that. </p>
<p>But don’t take my word for it. Try sitting on someone’s thighs and reaching forward to “punch down” on their face. Can’t do it. Of course TM might have been sitting on GZ’s chest, but that would have made it even more difficult for GZ to reach his pistol and shoot TM straight into the upper chest. Try it yourself.</p>
<p>(All boys in my family, so I’ve had some practical experience with this.)</p>
<p>Also, if you read the complete autopsy there was not an exit wound either. The report also notes that TM was wearing two thicknesses of sweatshirts.</p>
<p>Surely some poster has been in the military and seen mortally wounded men fall backward, twist etc between the mortal shot and the spot they end up when they expire. I think I read some report that there is an indication that TM was not instantly dead. Can anyone recall?</p>
<p>The problem is that there’s even less evidence of GZ “raining blows” on TM than of TM doing that to GZ. GZ at least had some injuries, although not very serious ones. TM’s only injury appears to be a bullet in his chest. There may well have been some rolling around, with people flailing at each other. “Raining blows”, however, doesn’t seem to be supported by the physical evidence.</p>
<p>Another problem for Zimmerman is his cover story for why witnesses saw him on top of Trayvon. He says after shooting Trayvon he got on top of the body and pinned the boy’s arms out wide bc he wasn’t sure he was dead. So he was satisfied with one shot, that we now know was fatal instantly, but he mounted what must be a prone body and pinned the arms out wide. </p>
<p>This man acted in many unreasonable ways. Overkill much!</p>
<p>Plus, as I mentioned up thread, the witness who had claimed to have seen blows raining down admitted today that he could not be sure that he had seen anything beyond arm movements. He could not say for sure that punches were connecting</p>
<p>In “Ground and Pound”, the person on the bottom has his legs above the person on top’s thighs. At least in this example.</p>
<p><a href=“How to Ground and Pound in MMA with Punches and Elbows - YouTube”>How to Ground and Pound in MMA with Punches and Elbows - YouTube;
<p>^ Here is “ground and pound” positioning I was referring to:</p>
<p><a href=“http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/howard-v-hallman.jpg[/url]”>http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/howard-v-hallman.jpg</a></p>
<p>I agree, there is nothing to support GZ being pummeled by TM. </p>
<p>This link shows a group of photos the police took of GZ after the shooting:</p>
<p>[George</a> Zimmerman Images Show Wounds (PHOTOS)](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>George Zimmerman Images Show Wounds (PHOTOS) | HuffPost Voices)</p>
<p>He has nothing but nicks on his face and some minor cuts on the back of his head. Nothing to support being “rained on” by “blows” from TM. I’ve seen kids more banged up after rec soccer than GZ is in these photos.</p>
<p>oh, great – so there isn’t just one acknowledged “ground and pound” position!!!</p>
<p>It looks like there are a number of “Ground and Pound” position-styles with at least two where the hip would be accessible by the person on bottom. So we do have a possible explanation as to how he could have acquired the gun with M on top of him.</p>
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<p>There’s sitting on the lower stomach, sitting under the thighs (I assume this is done so that the person on the bottom can’t give you a knee to the back), the person on the bottom being on his side, a diagonal position with the person on the top partially standing. The instructional videos at the top of a YouTube search show the position of the top person under the thighs of the bottom.</p>
<p>That’s from just a cursory look on Google Images.</p>
<p>I’ve never seen this position before (or most of the others). I guess you can tell that I’m not a fan of WWF.</p>
<p>Didn’t know there were official ground and pound guidelines…didn’t it used to just be called dirty fighting or a beating the life out of someone?</p>
![http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/howard-v-hallman.jpg[/url]](http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/howard-v-hallman.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
