<p>
</p>
<p>This pictures shows to the contrary. It is clear GZ took at least on hard hit to the nose. </p>
<p><a href=“http://i1302.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/albums/ag139/CCReport6/zimmermannosetip_zps05afb9f2.jpg[/url]”>http://i1302.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/albums/ag139/CCReport6/zimmermannosetip_zps05afb9f2.jpg</a></p>
<p>The Nurse who examined him said clinically his nose appeared broken but she did not have any xrays to be sure.</p>
<p>Zimmerman got his concealed weapon permit to be the star in his own episode of COPS. In the end he would be hailed as a hero for protecting his neighborhood, voted best neighborhood watch captain EVER and, everyone would say why haven’t we made this man a cop yet? </p>
<p>Rather inconvenient, an unarmed teenage boy doesn’t make for a good villain.</p>
<p>You can revive the plot though, if you have the teenager jump you (in the darkest part of the T) and attempt MMA move known as ground and pound.</p>
<p>razorsharp, that photo was in the series I posted (it was the first one, in b/w). Most of the blood must have dried up on his face and been cleaned up by the time the other photos were taken that night.</p>
<p>Noses bleed a lot. My son was a rugby player in HS and had several injuries like that simply from colliding with another player.</p>
<p>ETA: Watching the physician assistant on the stand right now. She said she told GZ he might want to see an ENT specialist for his broken nose and he declined. Doesn’t seem to have bothered him much at the time.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>It looks like “Ground and Pound” is fairly scientific if you watch the instructional videos. They show you the benefits and risks of various kinds of strikes with that form of fighting. Also, that you may want to hold some body part down with one arm while striking with the other.</p>
<p>Those other pictures look like they were taken after he was cleaned up. If so, there were some pretty long cuts to the back of his head.</p>
<p>BCeagle91 thanks for your points on the law. My understanding is that Florida Stand your Ground law states that defense is not available to a person who initially provokes the use of force against himself". The reason is that if an aggressor starts a fight, then starts to loose it then he could shoot his victim and claim self-defense. In practice the GZ case is a difficult case to prove because you need good forensic evidence and good witnesses and so far we have not seen that.</p>
<p>Another point: if someone is hitting you your first instinct is to protect yourself (arm would try to protect face, head). It would be an unnatural movement to reach for a gun located near your hip/thigh at that time in my opinion.</p>
<p>"If someone is on top of you striking you in the nose, would you have a reasonable belief that your life was in danger "</p>
<p>Well. I’m only 5’6" and a female but yes if a 6 foot tall 17 year old was on top of me and hitting me in the nose/face I probably would think my life could be in danger.</p>
<p>TM was 5’11" and 158 pounds when autopsied. GZ was either 5’7" or 5’ 8" and 185 - 200 pounds at the time. A person’s life “could” be in danger almost any time. The jury has to find that GZ had a reasonable belief that his life was in danger when he pulled out his gun and shot.</p>
<p>That’s probably why they didn’t invoke the SYG defense.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The pictures of his face show that he didn’t do a good job of defending himself. He had cuts on his forehead, the right of his forehead and other areas on his face in addition to the broken nose. He could have tried defending with one arm and taken the gun with the other.</p>
<p>My family has had handgun training (I haven’t) and that training may change how you react in a difficult situation.</p>
<p>MichiganGeorgia, you bear absolutely no relation to GZ…what difference does it make how YOU would react? And in this case, if you had followed a 17-year-old with a gun, why would you be surprised if he tried to defend himself?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It isn’t just the bleeding. His nose looks swollen and broken. Only a hard hit would have done that. The nurse said it looked clinically broken but she didn’t have an xray to confirm.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think there is any evidence TM knew GZ had a gun. I suspect if TM knew he would have run away and GZ would have had to shoot him in the back.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>One of the early things that they taught us in self-defense class were the zones of the body to kill and incapacitate. The bridge of the nose is a kill zone.</p>
<p>Presumably this was so that we’d be careful in sparring and practice. The jury is all-female so their natural perspective may be as a smaller person being attacked by a larger person. I haven’t seen a picture of the jury so I don’t know if the women are much larger or stronger than average. I’m just making an assumption that they are generally smaller than the average male.</p>
<p>But isn’t the jury all females? While male’s may think oh it’s no big deal I could get out of it, I’ve been in fights before… You need to think what a women might think about having someone beating on them. They just might think as I would ,that my life may be in danger and if I think that way then perhaps they will think that GZ did too.</p>
<p>Remember the jury is the one that is deciding. I am just trying to point out what they may think.</p>
<p>If GZ had thought his life was in danger because of this “*<em>**-ing punk/a</em>*hole” he would have heeded the 911 operator’s advice and stayed inside…NOT pursued him, armed with a loaded gun.</p>
<p>Nurse said Zimmerman was already established with a psychologist. It would not surprise me if he was seeing a psychologist for anger management.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>What you believe can change with circumstances.</p>
<p>Do you think that the prosecution will use this approach in their closing statement?</p>
<p>I tend to think there were two seperate, quick fights. One fight on or next to the sidewalk where Martin stopped talking on the phone with Rachel, when Zimmerman confronted him the first time. Martin punched him on the nose, and Zimmerman fell backward, hitting his head on the sidewalk. Martin turned to run the house, and Zimmerman pursued him. Now they were on the grass, and this is where neighbors heard the muffled voices. At some point one of them tackled the other (I tend to think maybe it was Zimmerman, who by now is angry and really believes he is in pursuit of a “bad guy”) There was some wrestling, with Martin ending up on top. I think he stood up to make one last attempt to run to the house, and when he stood up Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot him. </p>
<p>I can’t really buy that there was much of an actual fight, because there weren’t many injuries. </p>
<p>I think there was just a lot of yelling and wrestling. I think Martin was trying to get to the house, but stopped to defend himself from a “creepy-ass cracker” who was first following and then confronting, and then chasing him.</p>
<p>And I think Zimmerman was determined to stop that punk, got the bad end of a punch, and then ended up on the bottom of a wrestling match. When Martin began to stand up to make one last run towards the house Zimmerman thought “I’m on the ground, and this guy is standing up to kick my head in.” At that point his hands were free to reach for the gun, and he fired it. </p>
<p>Maybe the last panicked screams we hear on the 911 tape are Martin seeing the gun and screaming in terror. His screams were cut short when the gun fired.</p>
<p>Or, maybe not.</p>
<p>Maybe I should write crime fiction.</p>
<p>“My family has had handgun training (I haven’t) and that training may change how you react in a difficult situation.”</p>
<p>A pistol is an unsuitable weapon for hand-to-hand combat. (It’s a lot like fighting while holding a 2-lb. Heavy Hand training weight.)</p>
<p>I am struggling to understand why someone who did MMA training several times a week, who fancied himself the brave defender of his gated community, and who had a significant size advantage over a teenage boy couldn’t handle a simple tussle on the ground, if that’s what it was.</p>
<p>Or maybe, as razorsharp points out, he had anger management issues and was gunning for a showdown with the latest punk to cross his path.</p>
<p>@eastcoast - Your theory sounds as good as any I’ve read so far. Only TM and GZ really know what happened that night. Everyone is just guessing.</p>
![http://i1302.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/albums/ag139/CCReport6/zimmermannosetip_zps05afb9f2.jpg[/url]](http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag139/CCReport6/zimmermannosetip_zps05afb9f2.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
