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<p>You can see four to five inch lines in the pictures that you just posted.</p>
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<p>Wow, what a question. If Zimmerman is acquitted which seems likely at this point, they will have suffered loss of income, stress, and damage to their careers. Can that be fixed? Who do they sue? </p>
<p>I feel cheated at this point. I was told by Martin’s family and his backers and the media that GZ was a racist who killed an unarmed kid because of that kid’s race and that the Sanford PD covered up the murder because it did not want GZ prosecuted because of his race. So far, I have heard absolutely nothing to suggest GZ acted out of race or that the Sanford PD protected him because of his race. Now the attorney for the Martin family is saying the case is not about race. What I have learned at this point is that GZ is an idiot, but I already knew that. What I have yet to see is a crime by GZ. But then again, it isn’t over.</p>
<p>razor the Martin family has every right to complain about the police and others have every right to praise the police. Neither should have any impact to whether or not police are fired.
If someone is fired there should always be documentation that supports the firing.</p>
<p>I feel cheated too. I believed that the Sanford Police Dept, which had a very spotty record on race relations, would have stopped that evening and thought “Let’s not add any fuel to the fire by suggesting that it’s perfectly legal for the armed son of a local Judge to stalk and shoot an unarmed black teen in that teen’s neighborhood. Let’s at least have a CURSORY investigation.” Instead they tested the victim for drugs … but not the shooter. Definitely feel cheated.</p>
<p>@hop_scout it wouldn’t be a good argument because the standards for proceeding to trial exceed the standards for making an arrest. Standard for arrest is the officer must have probable cause to believe that the defendant committed a crime. If there is probable cause the police department then has a duty to investigate and gather evidence. </p>
<p>The prosecutor must have a reasonable belief that there is evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty in order to file charges. </p>
<p>If the judge believes either the officers didn’t have probable cause or the prosecutor doesn’t have a reasonable belief that the case can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then the judge must dismiss the charges. </p>
<p>Those former employees lost their argument when judge found probable cause. Whether the prosecution wins or loses has no bearing on whether they had a duty to investigate and gather evidence bc there was probable cause.</p>
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<p>How do you know the police did a drug test on Martin? The only test I am aware of was by the medical examiner as part of the autopsy. Isn’t that standard procedure? </p>
<p>When I have seen is the police taking a video and having Zimmerman walk them through the incident. Isn’t that an adequate investigation?</p>
<p>“How do you know the police did a drug test on Martin?”</p>
<p>There are multiple claims online that this was true. But I could find no reliable source. So I’m going with you on this. Sorry 'bout the misinformation.</p>
<p>“When I have seen is the police taking a video and having Zimmerman walk them through the incident. Isn’t that an adequate investigation?”</p>
<p>It’s every bit as adequate as the three walk-throughs the SEC did at Madoff’s firm.</p>
<p>razorsharp, if you feel “cheated” maybe you should pick up a copy of the book George Zimmerman’s dad had published just in time for the trial…it’s all about the “malicious” portrayals of his son. Too bad the Martins don’t have the same resources and access to the publishing industry and media.</p>
<p>sally - There are books:</p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Trayvon Martin, The Whole Story eBook: andrew aames: Kindle Store](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Trayvon-Martin-Whole-Story-ebook/dp/B007OZ2NIG]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Trayvon-Martin-Whole-Story-ebook/dp/B007OZ2NIG)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Pursuing-Trayvon-Martin-Contemporary-Manifestations/dp/0739178822[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Pursuing-Trayvon-Martin-Contemporary-Manifestations/dp/0739178822</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D5IGLIY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0739178822&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=08EYRW0C40KED768QYBM[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D5IGLIY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0739178822&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=08EYRW0C40KED768QYBM</a></p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Trayvon Martin R.I.P eBook: John John: Kindle Store](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Trayvon-Martin-R-I-P-ebook/dp/B007N73G40/ref=pd_sim_kstore_6]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Trayvon-Martin-R-I-P-ebook/dp/B007N73G40/ref=pd_sim_kstore_6)
[Amazon.com:</a> Walking While Black: Justice for Trayvon Martin and My ‘Suspicious’ Black Boys - The Burden of Black Boys in America and the People Who Love Them (True … Cities, True Crime Minority Series) eBook: Devon J. Clydewell: Kindle Stor](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Walking-While-Black-Suspicious-ebook/dp/B007M6BMEI/ref=pd_sim_kstore_2]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Walking-While-Black-Suspicious-ebook/dp/B007M6BMEI/ref=pd_sim_kstore_2)</p>
<p>So the witness who earlier claimed (as widely quoted by the Zimmerman defenders) that he saw Martin raining blows on Zimmerman, MMA style, now admits that he didn’t actually see Martin throw a single punch? </p>
<p>[Witness</a> Makes Key Admission That He Never Saw Trayvon Martin Throw A Punch At Zimmerman | ThinkProgress](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/]Witness”>http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/)</p>
<p>Also, if Martin was really on top of Zimmerman beating him, did Zimmerman have dirt or mud stains on the back of his clothing? Did Martin’s knees?</p>
<p>Razirsharp. See when you say you see no crime, all I see is a grown man who got out of a car to follow a kid, who got understandably upset at being followed. He killed somebody HE stalked. I don’t care if the kid fought back. He was originally walking home minding his business. I don’t want an America where you can stalk me and shoot me dead and claim self defense. There is something so fundamentally wrong with that it defies the most basic right to freedom and actual self defense.</p>
<p>I agree with you poetgrl that is why I think Zimmerman is a jerk, idiot, and as many other names as I can think of. I would not want him in my neighborhood or anywhere near me. I think Martin attacked Zimmerman. Martin had the motive to do so because he was (understandably) angry that Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman had no motive to attack Martin because Zimmerman had called the police and at 7:11:02 p.m. begged the dispatcher to “please get an officer over here.” It was wrong for Martin to attack Zimmerman. He should have continued running or called 911 himself. I say this even though I suspect more young men would have reacted the way Martin did than run or call 911.</p>
<p>If someone is on top of you pushing your head down with sufficient force to break your nose, I think you can argue that you feared for your life and needed to use a gun.</p>
<p>Zimmerman practice MMA, so I assume he would spar with someone at once or twice before. If so, getting hit a few times with a few cuts and bruises should not be something he never experienced before. TM has no marks or bad bruises on his hands or knuckles. But to turn around and shoot TM in the chest, that was overwhelming response. Maybe I assume wrong but I think good judgement was not followed that night.</p>
<p>Also Zimmerman went in knowing he had a gun, TM did not know. I think Zimmerman had got to exercise a lot more restraint and gave clearer signal. He could have done that when he drove by TM, or at any time when he had closed contact. Even the first moment when he engaged with TM and when TM asked why are you following me, he should have yelled something like I am just a Neighbourhood watch person, I don’t mean you any harm, I am just looking out for crime and bad people.</p>
<p>^ razor - I guess what some of us are having trouble with is the chain of events: (1) GZ “wrong” to elevate TM from “suspicious” to “suspect”; (2) GZ “wrong” to leave his vehicle; (3) GZ “wrong” to ignore police instruction; (4) GZ “wrong” to not abort surveillance when seen; (5) GZ “wrong” to let “the suspect” get within arms’ length; (6) GZ “wrong” to use lethal force as his sole line of defense; … And yet (7) GZ “right” to kill TM. Where is GZ’s responsibility?</p>
<p>All of the martial arts classes are set up to make money from repeat business…not to produce fighting champions. Zimmerman couldn’t whip an average 10th grade wrestler from Ohio or other decent state. He was getting his butt kicked by Martin. Way over his head in that fight.</p>
<p>The language here (meaning the facts) is important. Everyone is willing to excuse Martin’s attack on Zimmerman. I am as well, in part, in the sense that I think Zimmerman should be convicted of something serious (manslaughter?) and should do material time. But if Martin had been 25 or 30, I don’t feel the attack would be as excuseable. I am afraid that the law doesn’t make that distinction. Getting beaten up is getting beaten up, regardless of the age of the assailant.</p>
<p>I just can’t get past the fact that a kid is needlessly dead. I can’t figure out how you get to chase someone and kill them and then claim self defense I’m sure I would have never been put on that jury. I think there’s a real problem with a law that allows for this, personally. But I won’t keep saying that anymore. My main feeling is just sadness that a kid was killed for nothing.</p>
<p>This comment is not directed at anyone in particular … but … for those who think it’s OK for a wuss like GZ to use lethal force on a teenager, what if TM had been 12 instead of 17? Or, what if “the suspect” turned out to be a 15-year-old girl who sprayed GZ with mace before pummeling him? Is getting beat up a universal rationale for using lethal force?</p>
<p>@New Hope and poetgrl, I agree 100%. I just don’t understand how you could stalk a teenager with a gun at hand… I mean obviously if you were following someone with a gun at hand and a 911 call, clearly there was some kind of motive…</p>
<p>If you followed me home from the store at night, I would have a problem with you. </p>
<p>Do both people in a fight get to claim self defense? That’s what I don’t understand. The only one who gets to “stand their ground” in this case is Martin. And therein lies the problem with this law. It just doesn’t actually work the way it’s supposed to. </p>
<p>Zimmerman is the only instigator I see here</p>